Terrible life with adult daughter

[sarah166]

This is going to sound ridiculous but I am putting it out here in the hope that someone can help me. I am really at the end of my tether. Granted, it has taken me a long, long time to get there, but I am finally there and I need some help otherwise I really am going to go mad.

Me and DH have two daughters aged 17 and 24, both still living at home. The older one has always been very challenging from being a toddler. She went though the terrible teens phase, well, terribly. Looking back, I suppose she never did anything that bad- lying, drinking, smoking and mega-tantrums, possibly all normal for some teenagers, but believe me, if you were there at the time it was simply awful.

When she was about 17, it looked like she had turned a corner. She took her A Levels and got a place at college and settled down to do her degree. As she was still living at home (her choice, the option to go away to study was always there) it wasn't always easy to say the least but she graduated but since then, it has all gone downhill.

She hasn't been able to hold down a job since she graduated and although she has been made redundant a couple of times, she has mostly been sacked a few weeks (or even days) into the job for lateness, rudeness, laziness or similar. The longest she has ever held down a job was for six months. Her attitude towards work stinks, quite frankly. Now she is unemployed and although she is applying for jobs and does get a few interviews, I don't really expect her to get a job any time soon. She won't apply for jobs outside the local area as she says "it costs thousands to move towns" She has never made any financial contribution here, as even when she was working, she said she needed pretty much all of her money for her car, petrol etc and she would start paying board when she had paid of her (relatively modest) overdraft, which she never did. In hindsight we know we should have made her pay even a modest amount of board, but we were trying to help her on her way financially after uni. She has no intention of moving out as not only is she in no financial position to do so, she is mean beyond belief and would not pay rent on a house or for bills and groceries when she can live here for free.

Her opinions and views on life, which she has no qualms about expressing to pretty much anyone, are sometimes beyond belief. The other day she parked in a parent and child bay at the supermarket and when a member of the public took her to task over this she replied "I will park where I want".

She regularly has tantrums over nothing and the other week she trashed her sister's bedroom because someone had finished off a packet of biscuits. She shouts and screams every day over nothing and constantly rants about her life as soon as either me or her dad get in from work.

I am not saying me and my husband did everything right but I honestly do not know why she is like she is. My younger daughter certainly has her moments but she is a good kid, works hard at college and is well-liked. My two sisters and my nieces and nephews simply cannot stand my older daughter and find it difficult to spend any time with her. This is awkward as we have all been so close and do lots together as a family, but I can't say I blame them at all.

So what do we do? She's not going anywhere soon.

Please help.

OP I've been off MN for a week but wrote something down below which I think you agreed with. But am seeing lots of continued prevarication from you - yes of course good idea to get GP advice, but just be careful that's not an excuse for inaction. Because that could go on for months. Every day you dont sit her down and tell her to shape up or ship out is another day you are leaving her locked into this situation - and yourselves. There have to be consequences...her behaviour is unacceptable.

Hi All,

Thanks for responses in my absence, they are so comforting, really. My GP appointment is not til this Tuesday coming (non-emergency, so had to wait, which is fine). This week has been a weird one as I have been back at work and my daughter has been on a 2 day work placement. You wouldn't believe the amount of moaning about how she shouldn't have to work unpaid etc and she was very late the first day because she "lost" her car keys. But as I have been busy at work and with other things, I thankfully haven't seen an awful lot of her which is a terrible thing to say but I mean it. I am dreading the weekend, as usual.

At the moment, we are trying to get my daughter to apply for some Summer jobs either overseas or somewhere else in this country. So far, she is flat-out refusing, as she says the pay and conditions are not good enough. No matter what the experience of working away will bring or the opportunities it may present, she will not entertain the idea unless the wage is good, which of course it won't be- no one takes holiday jobs to get rich. Apart from getting her away from us, it would be some life-experiene for her, which she has had precious little of, really.

The long-term plan is to offer my daughter a deposit on a room and three months' rent. We have tried this before and she has refused (as she would have to spend her own money on bills and groceries) but this time we have to make it happen, I know. We just have to decide on a timescale. If we wait til she gets a job, she will only then say we should wait for her to get a few months' salary so she can save up (she never does).

I will keep you updated. xxx

But you are still letting her set the pace 'At the moment, we are trying to get my daughter to apply for some Summer jobs either overseas or somewhere else in this country' why are you trying, not telling? Why is it your plan to offer, rather than something you have already told her?

If you want to make a change, you have to actually do it! Sit her down, tell her how it is, and start the clock ticking.

You are enabling her by not doing so.

Rant over. But stepping away from thread as am too frustrated by your lack of preparedness to actually do something here.

I haven't read the whole thread,... but why the hell should she change when she has everything on her terms ?
As last poster says - Stop enabling her ! If she is so horrible to you and disrespectful - let her stand alone - She is 24 !
You do not owe her anything.

she sounds very unhappy. would councelling help? can you book an appointment for her? can you sit down and explain that you both need to change the way you both communicate and make things better. you both seem to have got into a rut and it has to stop as you are at your wits end. are you always negative towards her? try being really really positive. value/appreciate even the smallest nice things she does - hopefully she will do more with encouragment. do you seem to favor one daughter over other daughter? can you do some bonding activites together one on one. can you ask her how you can support her in moving forward.

Hi. Havent read whole thread but I do wonder if your dd does have a mental health problem. You describe her irritational moods and inability to see things from another point of view. Her tantrums, her stubborness. It doesnt sound like she is very sociable either.
She could be on the Autistic Spectrum-HFA or Aspergers. A lot of behaviour for people on the spectrum is driven from high levels of anxiety, and an aversion to change. So, she will give 101 reasons why she shouldnt move out or get a job etc.
That isnt to say, that she shouldnt be challenged-she is 24, and is not incapable of seeing that her behaviour is unacceptable.
You are in a position, where as an adult, your dd cannot be "dragged" to the GP with you etc. You could see the GP yourself, explain her behaviour as a young child and now. Perhaps he can suggest a referral to adult Mental Health.
I could be wrong-she could just be hideous, but if you want change, you will have to force it on her. Give her an ultimatum-you have x amount of weeks, to agree to see someone. If you refuse, you WILL be put out of our home. And, DO IT. If, she sits in the street and screams, the police will come, and if they see her as vulnerable/mentally ill, they will contact a hospital etc. If they see her as a nuisance, well, she will face the consequences of that. But, do NOT have her living back home. She can go and declare herself homeless. It will be hard, but in the long run, you will be helping her far more than continuing with the current situation. Good Luck.

Update: My daughter is refusing to apply for Summer jobs which will take her away from where we live. Her sister is going away to university in the Autumn and we have told my older daughter that we expect her to leave at the same time. She said "I will when I get a job" and the same old argument about her JSA only being enough to cover car insurance and phone etc etc. I told her to sell the car, she refuses, starts screaming that if she has no car, she can't get to interviews etc. When I tell her she will have to use public transport like everyone else in a similar situation, she just screams and cries at how unfair I am being. It's like travelling in one massive, headache inducing circle, as any discussion with her is, about anything. Sample:

-Do you think I should go swimming?
-yes
-why do you think I should go swimming?
-because you might enjoy it.
-I don't think I will.
-then don't go.
-why do you think I shouldn't go swimming?

And this is every conversation about anything, no matter how trivial.

Feel free anyone to step away from the thread. I know just how you feel.

Poor you . I suppose its too late for adoption at her age . Seriously I think the doctor is going to tell you she has mental health issues . I dont know if this is going to make you feel better or not . I mean if she does have MH issues does that mean that you can never ask her to leave the family home . ?

Sarah, I wonder if she has Oppositional Defiant Disorder. Just a thought.

Or an adult version of it.

This sounds like a truly awful situation OP. I really am in no position to advise you as I have trouble controlling a 3 and 4 year old!

I agree with the majority of the posters saying you should come down hard on her, give strict rules etc etc. However I do half wonder what would happen if you simply came into the kitchen (or wherever) one morning and just gave her a hug ?? Would she be aggressive or would she be accepting and calm down a bit (for a while anyway!) ??

I just get the feeling from your posts that there isn't much caring/love etc in your household at the minute and maybe it might provoke a different response in her ?? Surely worth a shot?

Like I say tho I do agree with the "hard line" approach in the long term if she flat our refuses to change.

Hi there; never been on one of these sites before but had to respond as it all rings so familiar, i can really sympathise. Had my partners adult daughter living with us for the past 14 months which has been destructive to say the least. I have finally snapped but rather than go down the "I'm kicking you out route" I have CHOSEN the "I'm helping you move on route" I went down to the council office and collected application forms for housing benefit and going onto housing waiting list, I then made a list of all landlords who accept DSS rental payments, I then gave her 4 weeks to start saving for her definitive moving out date. I gave no reasons- been down that road too many times and achieves nothing- simply gave clear concise quiet instruction. She will not be homeless if she leaves your home. I needed to do this before I forgot what normal home life felt like. She hasno come back or ammunition if you are assisting her moving on. Let her treat a landlord or fellow tenants like she treats you, she'll soon meet someone who's bite is bigger than her bark in the real world. I feel for you I really do but you need to save yourself for the sake of your own sanity and for the good of the rest of your family. Stay strong, this is a self perpetuating situation if you do not draw a line under it as she is clearly so dogmatic and self righteous that she will never wake up one morning and magically see the error of her ways which is I am sure what you must be hoping for... Wishful thinking I'm afraid. Take ownership of the objective you need for you and your family, you are entitled to be happy too. Just because you are her mum does not mean you should sacrifice your life to accommodate her abhorrent behaviour. Practical steps are what's called for and do not engage in discussion/ row.

OP, you have my sympathy. No useful advice, just marking my place as I'd love to read about your happy ending when it comes!

I haven't read all the posts but just wondered if anyone had suggested voluntary work overseas. I wasn't a complete nightmare as a teenager but I was pretty stroppy, unhappy, angry, bored etc etc.

The best thing that happened to me was that the one day I actually made it to school on time was the day that they were telling us about an organisation called Project Trust which organises overseas voluntary projects. As a result, I spent a year teaching english in China and it was the best thing I ever did. It gave me confidence, it opened up a whole new world to me and it presented me with a challenge that I rose to. I had responsibility. It made me feel like I was standing out from the crowd and doing something different. My parents were the other side of the world so they couldn't tell me what to do - this was pre-internet/e-mail and mobile phones - I only spoke to them 3 times during the whole year and we had to correspond the old fashioned way! I had to find my own way and earn the respect of the locals. I remember feeling so happy and alive I wanted to burst at times. It also looked great on my CV and was the reason I got the job offers I did. It ignited a love of travelling in me and I've since worked very hard to get the money together to travel the world.

Project Trust is only for post A-Level/pre Uni students so not suitable for your DD but there are other organisations that may be worth looking at. Certainly, there were many other Brits and Americans teaching in China when I was there. You tend to get accommodation and a small amount of pay in return for teaching work. Maybe she's feeling trapped, fed up, bored, angry and wants to blame everyone apart from herself. I know I did.

It's scary taking a step into the unknown - whether it's across the world or just into the world of adulthood responsibility - knowing how to get a mortgage or the world of utility bills and council tax isn't something you really learn about and can seem so daunting until you actually do it. I think the confidence and maturity I gained from my years out really helped me then make those next steps. Maybe she needs some help to see that these things aren't so scary or unachievable or maybe she needs something on the horizon that's going to challenge her in some way other than what she may perceive as mundane everyday adult life?

Good luck. I hope things improve.

Sorry, just seen that you have suggested summer jobs abroad. Do you think her refusal really is because of money or do you think she's using that as an excuse because she's frightened to take that step?

Your DD sounds a lot like my little sister, in fact I looked at the thread because I thought it might have been written by my mum!

My sister does have MH issues, the closest she has got to a diagnosis though is that she has a personality disorder, which she might grow out of by the time she's 30 . ADHD, Aspergers, and Bipolar have also been mentioned. To those on the thread saying she may have MH issues and need help, I cannot emphasis enough how difficult it is to get help for someone in this situation. My sister has cut herself and burned herself repeatedly, has spent days in a drink induced misery, has told a Dr she wants to kill herself, and got nowhere. My mum has pleaded with a Dr to section her, because she is frightened about what my sister will do to herself - nothing.

My sister is a lovely person and can be incredibly charming and funny and people make allowances for her - they have done her no favours. She is also incredibly rude and difficult sometimes, and as a family we have basically accomodated this.

I am sure someone from the outside would make all sorts of very sensible suggestions, but it is very difficult when you haven't been in this situation to understand why certain things won't work.

Anyway, this is a very long winded way of saying I understand how you feel, and I hope you get things sorted.

Everything Maryz suggested, and Fizzylemonade too.

However, I think she has a raging personality disorder. Not sure which one or which combination -- either that or severe MH issues. Please read Pod3030's links, and look up Borderline Personality Disorder too. People with these disorders tend to make everyone else in their lives lose their sanity. If she won't go to be assessed then you need to do what Maryz suggested and let her sink or swim on her own, hard though that may be.

Could you move? Downsize. She would have to go then.

I hope the OP comes back and tells us whether the doctor was any help.

i don't think the op is coming back. she hasn't posted for over a month.