Terrible life with adult daughter

[sarah166]

This is going to sound ridiculous but I am putting it out here in the hope that someone can help me. I am really at the end of my tether. Granted, it has taken me a long, long time to get there, but I am finally there and I need some help otherwise I really am going to go mad.

Me and DH have two daughters aged 17 and 24, both still living at home. The older one has always been very challenging from being a toddler. She went though the terrible teens phase, well, terribly. Looking back, I suppose she never did anything that bad- lying, drinking, smoking and mega-tantrums, possibly all normal for some teenagers, but believe me, if you were there at the time it was simply awful.

When she was about 17, it looked like she had turned a corner. She took her A Levels and got a place at college and settled down to do her degree. As she was still living at home (her choice, the option to go away to study was always there) it wasn't always easy to say the least but she graduated but since then, it has all gone downhill.

She hasn't been able to hold down a job since she graduated and although she has been made redundant a couple of times, she has mostly been sacked a few weeks (or even days) into the job for lateness, rudeness, laziness or similar. The longest she has ever held down a job was for six months. Her attitude towards work stinks, quite frankly. Now she is unemployed and although she is applying for jobs and does get a few interviews, I don't really expect her to get a job any time soon. She won't apply for jobs outside the local area as she says "it costs thousands to move towns" She has never made any financial contribution here, as even when she was working, she said she needed pretty much all of her money for her car, petrol etc and she would start paying board when she had paid of her (relatively modest) overdraft, which she never did. In hindsight we know we should have made her pay even a modest amount of board, but we were trying to help her on her way financially after uni. She has no intention of moving out as not only is she in no financial position to do so, she is mean beyond belief and would not pay rent on a house or for bills and groceries when she can live here for free.

Her opinions and views on life, which she has no qualms about expressing to pretty much anyone, are sometimes beyond belief. The other day she parked in a parent and child bay at the supermarket and when a member of the public took her to task over this she replied "I will park where I want".

She regularly has tantrums over nothing and the other week she trashed her sister's bedroom because someone had finished off a packet of biscuits. She shouts and screams every day over nothing and constantly rants about her life as soon as either me or her dad get in from work.

I am not saying me and my husband did everything right but I honestly do not know why she is like she is. My younger daughter certainly has her moments but she is a good kid, works hard at college and is well-liked. My two sisters and my nieces and nephews simply cannot stand my older daughter and find it difficult to spend any time with her. This is awkward as we have all been so close and do lots together as a family, but I can't say I blame them at all.

So what do we do? She's not going anywhere soon.

Please help.

I would also say that whatever you decide to do that you have to have full support from your DH. You're both in this together and have to stay strong for each other......if not only to shore each other up when one of you is struggling with any decisions that you make....

Good luck with everything. Sorry if I've seemed a bit harsh, just thought it might have helped you have more resolve with her...

You can't change her: you can change what you do. You are enabling her to behave like this. If you want things to change, you need to change what you do. Time for tough love. Talk it over with your DH, agree what you want to do, agree what risks you are prepared to take in how she responds, and then, vitally, stick to it.

I know we are enabling her - it's how we stop doing that which is the problem.

As I see it we have only one short-term option which is to physically throw her out. Now I have no problem with that other than she will run straight round to family, who will bear her for a few days then send her straight back to us. I apologize if this sounds like an excuse or denial abut what has to be done but I am 99% sure this is what will happen. We can then refuse to take her back in, I know.

Long term, we can go down the GP route. In fact, if she stays or she goes, she will eventually have to get psychological help.

I agree that she must leave. She won't have a clue that she needs to change her behaviour unless change is forced upon her. if you don't tell her to go this will go on and on and on.

then send her straight back to us

you make it clear, very clear to family if they take her in be it on their own heads as you are not taking her back - you do this from before the start and then everyone is clear on where they stand.

This will play on your health, you love your dd and she bahves appaulignly, that is her choice and you have not made her this way but are enabling her to behave this way.

'I am ashamed she is my daughter'

'I can find nothing at all to like about her'

Well have you considered that she knows this and that may be the reason for her anger . Her feelings don't come from nowhere so I suggest you try to talk to her and listen

I just can't believe how acceptable you all think it is to make your child homeless

this is a woman aged 24 year old a child would be under 16

well if you want to be pedantic about it but quotes like this

'I can't stand her and my dh feels the same' makes me very sad indeed

My parents couldn't stand me either and I went through some bad phases as a teenager. I don't talk to them now but I have a lovely family of my own.

She may have mental health problems or if not I suspect there may be some underlying reasons why she feels so angry and acts this way towards her parents.

well wouldn't you feel very sad if you didn't get on with your grown up dd? Do you get on with your grown up dd - cos if so give some tips to making a relationship work please, as there maybe a reason this dd feels anrgy and perhaps your tips on relationships may help

Sounds to me like your daughter is depressed, sarah, so a visit to the GP is probably a good start. Depression is not always shown by sitting around crying but can show as anger and anxiety as well. You say you wonder why on earth your daughter even wants to live with you and continue the situation when she must be miserable too - well, the answer is that she's probably terrified of the alternative. She clearly lacks confidence in coping on her own but instead of showing her vulnerable side to you and asking for help, she's bullying you and being aggressive to hide how scared she is. Rather than moving away to college, she chose to stay in her comfort zone. Her attempts to get a job and stand on her own two feet have failed as she has lost so many jobs. She really needs some help - not from you but from some professional - to sort our her anger and fix her behavioural problems.

That's her problem, however, and if she refuses to face up to her problems then tough love is your only option. I agree with Maryz's suggestions above: set some clear boundaries and a time limit and stick to them and make these clear to your daughter. Don't engage with her emotional tantrums and blackmail - just walk away. Offer to get her medical help but make it clear to her that her behaviour is not normal and not acceptable and you won't tolerate or enable her anymore.

I speak from the experience of my parents who still have my 41 year old brother living with them, having been through this phase of his life when he was in his early 20s and refusing to stand on his own two feet as well. The root cause was anxiety and depression. He just couldn't cope with life on his own. Unfortunately he stonewalled all their efforts to help him or change him. My mother suggested he see someone about his mental state and he just shouted back at her that she was the one with mental problems ... he has treated my parents appallingly and his behaviour has really damaged our family as well. In the past, he threatened to just kill himself if they threw him out and spent years not talking to them despite living under their roof, really terrible emotional blackmail like that. It's one of the main reasons I moved out for good at 18 (he's 9 years older than me) and left the country at 22 because I couldn't bear going home and seeing him anymore. I do think if my parents had nipped his behaviour in the bud and set firm boundaries with him early on in his 20s when he first starting showing signs of behavioural problems, they might have had a chance of avoiding this outcome. Best of luck and i hope you manage to follow some of the advice on here.

Thank you so much everyone. I will certainly read everything you have all said very carefully and consider what to do. But certainly a GP visit, at least for me, is on the cards.

I honestly don't think she cares what me and her Dad think of her so if she is depressed, it certainly isn't because of our opinion of her. She doesn't take much notice of anything we say or think, nor that of her extended family. Certainly things like driving a certain kind of car or handbag are more important to her than what her family thinks.

My best friend has a step daughter who has always lived with them and has learning difficulties, so although now 26 is still like a 14 year old in behaviour and doesn't think about consequences of her actions.

She would work for a bit, lose the job, stay home and run up a £300 phone bill on her parent's phone line.

As they couldn't trust her in the house not to have "friends" round or use the phone they forced her to leave the house every morning at the same time as them and they would let her back in when they came home from work.

They removed her key and left her with a small amount of her jobseekers to buy lunch. It meant she couldn't lie in bed all day or watch endless tv whilst doing no housework. The initial excitement of walking round the shops soon lost its appeal and she found a job.

For your daughter sarah166 definitely a GP visit to rule stuff out but also maybe threaten to take her stuff and sell it to provide money for the house. If she values handbags so much she should be willing to get a job to save the ones she has

You have my sympathy. My sons are only 8 and 5 but watching my best mate live through 16 years of hell was awful. Sadly for her it is still on going although said step daughter now lives in her own bedsit.

Sarah
I don't think replies you read back relating to teenagers is the way to go.
Teenagers are a nightmare - we all know that !

Thing is, most do grow out of it and by their mid twenties are (almost) grown up.

I cannot emphasise enough how much I feel this is not a simple question of "kick her out" and I think you know that anyway.

Have you made that appointment ? I do so hope you have.

If the OP hadn't already parented this girl once they I would agree get her some anti d's and back on track and maybe to be kind you do want to do that OP but only do it once.
If she's still depressed in 3 months time then maybe that's her lot in life she will always suffer from depression but she needs to learn to live with it not use it as an excuse because she will not be getting benefits for depression and JSA will run out eventually.
I'll probably get flamed for this but you mentioned she'd move out if she found a nice boyfriend, do you know any one you think she might get on with that you could introduce to her ? It's not easy these days to meet new people/men especially if she's not in the work place.

Why should you get flamed Ishani....we are all only trying to help. Good idea I think to help her find a boyfriend/friend. The DD is going to have to calm it though if she is to hang onto people she likes. . . .
Flaming IMHO shouldnt happen at times like this anyway, cos I think all posts should be positive.People should keep their retaliatory nonsense at bay and focus on helping the OP. The OP has enough to cope with without cross fires! So dont nastily bounce back at Ishani folk..
Whats the latest Sarah??

You have my sympathy for what it's worth. I have a 10 month old and dread to imagine a point the relationship between us had broken down to this extent.

Please stop blaming yourself. There is only so much you can do and you can only move forward, no point looking back. Your daughter is abusing you in your own home, this is not acceptable and it must stop, I think everyone agrees on that. But how to stop it is a different problem and you will have to find a solution you can live with.

I think the idea of rules and boundaries is a really good one but you MUST follow up on any threats. And she does need to move out, for her sake as well as yours but maybe give her plenty of time, say 6 months and keep reminding her, so she has no cause to blame you and more importantly you don't have to feel bad about it. But when the time comes, warn extended family and then if necessary physically kick her out and change the locks. That's if you are ok with that though, you have to know the consequences may be you never see her again, or not for a long time.

You may want to consider Relate? They do family counselling too. And if she refuses, have a threat ready - no more money, have to leave by the end of the month etc... Or, if you prefer the carrot approach, offer her something she wants if she'll go and take an active part. She may find it easier to accept help if you all go along.

She may be depressed, yes, but depression is no excuse for this behaviour. If she has some form of attention deficit I think you'd know by now. TBH she sounds more like she has a borderline personality disorder. Your GP won't see her unless she consents or the GP has reason to believe she is mentally unstable (dangerous). So, again you may have to threaten/bribe her into it.

I admit my kneejerk was to be outraged and want to throw her out for you, but these things are never as easy as they seem and you still love her. I very much hope you find the strenth to take a firm line and you can get your own life back.

I think society always defend the parents and it is taboo and difficult to explore the idea that our children may be damaged because of faults in our own parenting and character.

I feel for you OP it is a difficult situation but are you being entirely honest (with yourself as well) about the dynamics of your relationship?

I do not know your daughter's version of events and you may be right about yours, but I think you need to take a step back and examine your own behaviour and parenting. Your posts are full of how you feel and the wrongs she has done to you. You do not for one minute seem to consider that your daughter may have cause for her anger and disregard for you and your dh.

Unless you raised her very oddly, the sort of emotion she feels can't come from nowhere. She can't be that unreasonable. You seem to dismiss your daughter's feelings as invalid. If this has always been the case then I imagine she has stopped caring what you think for good reason. You are both caught up in what seems like an unhealthy relationship and you need to move out of it - with psychological help if necessary.

Your comments about your other daughter and about how your eldest 'was always difficult' worry me. I hope you are not locked in the Golden child/scapegoat scenario. Unless your daughter has definate, organic mental health problems (which may be the case) then I suspect the seeds of this difficult were sewn long ago and she has learnt to behave in this way. You sound very bitter about her, like you really believe she was born this way.

Fast forward ten years and imagine how you want your relationship to be. Take seriously how she feels even if you don't understand. Otherwise this rift might grow. I speak as someone who has been in your daughter's position and I have turned my life around but I do not want my parents in my life any more.

Triton, I agree with most of what you are saying. I have been thinking long and hard for a long time now, over and over again, about how we brought up our oldest daughter and what effect this has had on her behaviour. We didn't do things perfectly by any means and we have certainly made mistakes but listening to her, loving her, making her feel valued and her opinions valid were things we always tried very hard to do, no matter what.

I am not bitter about her, I am bitter about the situation and I suppose I will always blame myself for it all, deep (and not-so-deep) down. I just feel we have done everything we can on that score, at least for now, and we need some practical solutions on the way to move forward. Whilst I admit I do want things to change for me and my husband, overwhelmingly I just want her to be happy.

This morning I decided that no matter what, I would really try to get on and be pleasant with my daughter whatever she said to me or did. This started off with her storming downstairs at 11am shouting that I had woken her up and that she would be glad when I went back to work as she needs her sleep. Instead of reacting to that, I apologized and offered to make her breakfast. She then proceeded to have a go at me for not organizing a royal wedding party tomorrow. She wants us all to have cupcakes and pink champagne. Even though this is not something I feel the need to mark at all, I offered to accompany her to the supermarket where we would buy cupcake ingredients. She refused saying she shouldn't have to, that I should be the one to "do all that".
I said if she got dressed I would take her out for coffee and cake and she shouted at me that I was "pressurising" her and that I should just leave her alone.
Then she started again about her cousin who has just got engaged and has an expensive ring, shouting "I want a Tiffany ring, it's not fair". She has now gone back to bed. See, it's irrational things like this which make me believe that there is something more going on than they way we as parents treated her when she was younger. No matter that this same cousin is paying for the entire family to fly out to New York to attend her wedding, my daughter doesn't see that. She just sees something she doesn't have and thinks about the injustice of why she doesn't have it, no matter how irrational that is.

Anyway, I have made an appointment with my GP for a week on Tuesday. We shall see what happens then.

Nothing really to add but just wanted to express sympathy, it must be very hard. I definitely agree with the tough love approach and that you must stick to it, no matter how abusive she gets, although I think a sensible warning time is a very good idea.

My sister was a very difficult teenager and my mum always backed down due to my sister's abusiveness / hysteria / threats of violence. When my sister finally performed to her fullest extent when my Dad was there (something she kept well hidden from him), he went ballistic and shocked her into accepting she needed to change her ways or face the alternative. She knew he would follow through on threats too. Maybe your daughter needs to know that there will be consequences, because at the moment, her behaviour is probably continuing to get worse because she knows there is no real consequence to it.

Hope it goes well at the GP.

A very sad situation. I hope the GP visit goes well.

God, she sounds 4 not 24. Best of luck and please don't blame yourself you just need practical help to get your life back x

sarah166 your tactic of "This morning I decided that no matter what, I would really try to get on and be pleasant with my daughter whatever she said to me or did." seems pretty odd to me. You sound like you have been quietly pandering to your dd today which imo is not treating her with respect at all. Why would you apologise for waking her up inadvertently at 11am?

I think there is a middle ground to be found between going on the attack and pussy footing around, a middle ground where you are honest with and yet respectful of your dd - assertiveness I suppose is another term for what I mean. I imagine it is hard to stay in the middle ground when your dd becomes extreme in response, but it is still where you need to stay imo.

I think counselling might help your dd as I expect she would say that she feels that you don't listen to her or understand her. Given that you clearly do love your child very much, somewhat bizarrely I also expect it is the case that she doesn't feel loved by you. Your dd very much needs you to be a good parent to her right now and that involves making changes yourself - it sounds as though you are ready to do this.