Terrible life with adult daughter

[sarah166]

This is going to sound ridiculous but I am putting it out here in the hope that someone can help me. I am really at the end of my tether. Granted, it has taken me a long, long time to get there, but I am finally there and I need some help otherwise I really am going to go mad.

Me and DH have two daughters aged 17 and 24, both still living at home. The older one has always been very challenging from being a toddler. She went though the terrible teens phase, well, terribly. Looking back, I suppose she never did anything that bad- lying, drinking, smoking and mega-tantrums, possibly all normal for some teenagers, but believe me, if you were there at the time it was simply awful.

When she was about 17, it looked like she had turned a corner. She took her A Levels and got a place at college and settled down to do her degree. As she was still living at home (her choice, the option to go away to study was always there) it wasn't always easy to say the least but she graduated but since then, it has all gone downhill.

She hasn't been able to hold down a job since she graduated and although she has been made redundant a couple of times, she has mostly been sacked a few weeks (or even days) into the job for lateness, rudeness, laziness or similar. The longest she has ever held down a job was for six months. Her attitude towards work stinks, quite frankly. Now she is unemployed and although she is applying for jobs and does get a few interviews, I don't really expect her to get a job any time soon. She won't apply for jobs outside the local area as she says "it costs thousands to move towns" She has never made any financial contribution here, as even when she was working, she said she needed pretty much all of her money for her car, petrol etc and she would start paying board when she had paid of her (relatively modest) overdraft, which she never did. In hindsight we know we should have made her pay even a modest amount of board, but we were trying to help her on her way financially after uni. She has no intention of moving out as not only is she in no financial position to do so, she is mean beyond belief and would not pay rent on a house or for bills and groceries when she can live here for free.

Her opinions and views on life, which she has no qualms about expressing to pretty much anyone, are sometimes beyond belief. The other day she parked in a parent and child bay at the supermarket and when a member of the public took her to task over this she replied "I will park where I want".

She regularly has tantrums over nothing and the other week she trashed her sister's bedroom because someone had finished off a packet of biscuits. She shouts and screams every day over nothing and constantly rants about her life as soon as either me or her dad get in from work.

I am not saying me and my husband did everything right but I honestly do not know why she is like she is. My younger daughter certainly has her moments but she is a good kid, works hard at college and is well-liked. My two sisters and my nieces and nephews simply cannot stand my older daughter and find it difficult to spend any time with her. This is awkward as we have all been so close and do lots together as a family, but I can't say I blame them at all.

So what do we do? She's not going anywhere soon.

Please help.

Fattyacid, I see where you are coming from. I just wanted to see that even with minimal provocation she would still find something to shout about/ call me an arsehole/ have a tantrum.

Nothing I or anyone else does is good enough. Someone could buy her the Tiffany ring she so covets and it would be too small or not the right shape or whatever. Any job she has had has, according to her, been beneath her. Her car is crap because the back windows don't open (!?) and it doesn't have air conditioning. She is never satisfied, even when she gets what she thinks she wants.

My way doesn't work, middle-ground doesn't work. Only her way will work, a way which changes and gets more out-of-reality every day.

Keep going with this strategy. I've heard it described like this...

"You don't fight fire with fire. You fight fire with water."

Chin up. Smile.

She sounds a little bit like my brother, horrendous tantrums, parents constantly trying to help him get jobs, bailing him out and buying him a car for a job he never bothered to apply for, not being willing to pay rent when unemployed, needing his parents to apply for jobs for him, not being able to keep a job due to his temper, always getting new cars he couldn't really afford, being incapable of doing anything for himself really, trashing the house when in a temper and not getting his own way . . . this went on until his mid 30s! The only reason it ended is because he got married and now his wife has to deal with it. I suspect my brother has special needs as he's a bit unusual in his social reactions (temper and laughter being extreme).

I agree with all those saying that you need to be tough. I don't think you should pay a deposit for her or anything as it's long gone the time when she needs to stand on her own two feet. Tell her you are not able to support her and that she needs to pay rent regardless of her income. If that means she has to get into debt to pay you then so be it. It's her problem not yours.

Did school have issues with her when she was younger?

She had problems with lateness and being gobby but nothing too serious at school. A general pain in the arse, that sort of thing.

I really think that you need to be consistently calm and assertive with her - just being "nice" is like being a "yes woman" - it's assuming a dogsbody role which seems to have been the pattern for some years and is just encouraging her to continue to treat you like this. It doesn't "prove that the problem is completely to do with her and not you" as you post suggests you are thinking.

Unwittingly you have strongly contributed to the current situation over many years due to your own behaviour to your dd, and you absolutely owe it to your daughter to change your behaviour. Step up and be the mother she needs you to be, its not too late. I suggest getting counselling for yourself to help you with this. Good luck and avoid taking extreme stances even though your dd is bound to adopt them. You need to be a role model. At the moment you are living proof to her that it is possible to find someone you can walk all over and disrespect and yet they will always be there for you at your beck and call, financing your lifestyle. no wonder she thinks she will at some point find a man to replace you and provide for her even better.

Sorry to be harsh but I really think you need to properly take responsibility for how this situation has arisen - your parenting has been seriously lacking imo. My brother still live at home at 40 and my parents have ruined his life. Don't do this to your dd. Lots of people will post sympathetically to you about how awful it must be for you (and I'm sure it is awful or you wouldn't have posted) but my opinion is that you are not allowing your child to grow up and that is wrong. It will be very difficult for her to change unless you change.

I know it's dodgy doing diagnosis on the internet, but my grandmother has narcissistic personality disorder and a lot of what you are saying is familiar. Apologies in advance for being so forward- perhaps it's something you can research just in case?

www.minddisorders.com/Kau-Nu/Narcissistic-personality-disorder.html

blog.thenarcissistinyourlife.com/2009/08/19/loathesome-narcissistic-daughters.aspx?ref=rss

I've been consistently calm for 24 years, that hasn't worked long term, so anything is worth a shot now. I am trying to take some responsibility for my actions- if it is all my fault, and it may well be, I will accept that, but we have to find a way out of this otherwise you are quite right Fatty Acid, she will be living here for the rest of her life.

Did you buy her the car? and she's saying it's crap? Wow.

She's definately spoilt. She needs a taste of the real world.
I agree, you could try and help her into getting her own flat or bedsit, then once she's in there she'll absolutely learn how good she had it at home, just buy having to take care of her own groceries, toiletries, washing, cleaning.
Is she capable of taking on the bills too? If you think she may actually have a learning or mental disability I would understand you perhaps helping with some of the bills.
But if you feel she's just having you over and she'd learn to woman up and cope if she had to, then absolutely, throw her into the deepend, say you've had enough of her complaints. You've brought her up, you and you're husband should be enjoying life yourselves right now. Obviously if she had some major disater you'd take her in, but please, the only disaster here is her being allowed to be so dependant and spoilt. I understand you care about her, but let her walk all over you and stay in a position that you really dislike much longer and you're relationship could become so dire that it gets near to irreparable, you wouldn't want that. You deserve your space, she needs to learn, time to make changes.

btw I believe life changes are a better option than you both trotting off to the doc to get happy pills

Either she has mental health issues or she is very seriously spoiled and hasn't learned the lesson that actions have consequences.

I would lay down the ultimatum that either she sees a GP and, if diagnosed with a mental health problem, she follow treatment TO THE LETTER as a condition of her continuing to live at home. Then give it some time to see if she improves.

If she is cleared of mental health problems, and she is indeed just a spoiled brat, throw her out of the house and stop giving her a free ride. She needs a huge dose of reality.

No, she bought her own car. But somehow it was our fault it wasn't good enough. There won't be any happy pills for me and I am not sure she will even go and see the doc but we will see what happens if she does. Broaching the subject over the weekend is going to be the first step.

Good luck, it sounds like you've done what any parent would do in your situation, there is a fine line balance between not bothered, mothering and dogsbodyness and it's a clever person who gets it right.

Depressed... all the fault of her upbringing... blah blah blah...

OP I doubt very much whether your thoroughly unpleasant daughter is the way she is through anything you have done/not done. You sound like a perfectly lovely parent who actually deserves a medal for not holding a pillow over her face years ago.

However, you ARE responsible for the fact she's still living with you. She is not a child by any means. She is a grown woman who has got a very cushy number living with you.

I'm going to make a guess that when she's in the company of others, she's sweetness and light. Of course she is; she's got YOU as her punchbag for getting rid of negative feelings.

I know it isn't going to be easy but for goodness sake, kick this creature OUT. She's totally poisonous. Of course she's still your daughter and if you want to carry on a relationship (hopefully a different kind of a relationship) with her once she's gone, then fine but do not let her spoil the rest of your life.

Imagine yourself in years to come. Imagine being elderly and arthritic. Now imagine her yelling at you, and ordering you about, and demanding, and complaining. Don't imagine for a moment she's going to ever change. You think she'd stop if you were old/ill?? Think again.

It's a really horrible situation and I'm so sorry for you.

I had a brother who was furious the whole time, resulting in him hitting anyone who was remotely near him. He wouldn't speak to anyone - he certainly didn't shout out what he wanted, like your daughter. However, he ended up being the last of us to leave home and I think only went then because he felt so stupid being the only 'child' there but so obviously hating it.

I wonder if family therapy would help. It would be good for you to be in a room where a professional person could observe her in action. I don't think her behaviour is due to poor parenting; I think the problem lies in your daughter.

It's interesting that she could cope with university without getting into trouble. The thing is there, that if you give in work late, you can only get a pass of 40%. They certainly don't come after you, asking where you were if you don't go to tutorials or lectures.

As she was managed in work, as she is (to some extent) at home, she can't hack it and gets the sack, just as she faces eviction from your house.

She is full of bravado, isn't she? She thinks she's going to get this rich man, have the perfect car, the Tiffany ring. She seems to think those things come easily enough. Is she vain? Does she think her pretty face will get her the job and the man?

Ultimately, she's a very angry young woman. It's not just that she's angry with people who try to control her, she's angry at other people's possessions and relationships.

I would start off with seeing your GP. Don't hold back or else he/she will be saying, 'Oh yeah, mine's a bit like that' and nothing will get done. Say that unless something is done, you will have a breakdown or kill her. The doctor will have to do something then.

Hopefully some kind of hormone tests will be run on her. Is she worse at certain times of the month? Have you tracked this? Is she EVER normal and able to discuss her situation? Also, I hope family therapy will give you the validation that it's not your parenting that has caused this.

As for the 11 o'clock get-up - I'd have the vacuum on outside her room from 7.30.

sounds horrendous.

I start looking for house shares for/with her. Let her know that its time she moved out and built a life for herslf,and that lying in bed until 11 and spending all her money on shoes is not the real world.

Set a deadline, pay the deposit and 1st 3 months of the house share and then leave her to it. Make it clear that she can visit if she is polite, but she may never move back in. make sure she has details of housing dept in the council. Leave her a week of grocery basics. tell extened family what you are doing and why and ask them not to let her move in with them. make sure they understand that this move is permanent.

sarah, im sad for you as you have tried your best - but it's clear reading your posts how much you have spoilt this girl. Yes, it's partly her character - but she actually sounds abusive - to you. You need to kick her out - many many people in the UK survive on JSA - she will have to learn to.

YOu are daily contributing to her behaviour - she is like a drug addict, why should she stop behaving like this - in the long run you are not helping her AT ALL> She has got to go to the bottom to learn to find her way up.

I honestly would not say that carelessly - but this is really really not going to be resolved while you constantly support her - what is she learning? She has you cowed, living in fear. Its really sad - but she needs to be given boundaries. It sounds as though she has never, ever actually had a proper boundary ie. you have threatened, but never carried through - she is like a toddler!

Give her a moving out date, don't worry about helpign her, she is a grown up - tell her you are doing it for her own good, it's absolutely shameful how she is living. This will continue and she will be beyond helping if she is still like this in 5 years.

YOu sound abused - you are swallowing her bullshit ie. I need my jsa for phone and car. She can get rid of the car and have a pay as you go phone and stop making calls. There are 16 year olds out there surviving on that money - its pathetic and embarrasing for her.

You are not helping her by supporting her anymore.

actually - the poster who says that you should give her a months rent or somethign is probably reasonable. She is so spoilt, she would simply not know how to cope - and im sorry to say that is because she hasnt been forced to look after herself.

So , tell her the way things will be - say that you will give her the money for three months - but thats it. no going back, NO NEGOTIATION. If you back down at all - she is simply never going to change. She needs an absolutely firm message - and if I was you I would give her some home truths about herself too. Be open and honest and kind - tell her that she needs to cope in the world. But be prepared for her anger - let it wash over you,

This is a dreadful situation for the op. It is very difficult to get an adult to do what they don't want to, which is why it must be so frustrating. It really is impossible to force an adult get out of bed, or contribute to the housework or bills, or go to work, if they don't want to. All the op can do is make the situation very uncomfortable for the daughter.

The best route is for the op and dh to have some some form of solution focused counselling so that they can stand firm and take control of their lives. They are going to have to change a life time of habits. The daughter sounds as if she is the dominant person in that household and this needs to change.
I doubt if the daughter will agree to see her GP and also that the GP will discuss the daughter's problems with the op, because of patient confidentiality. The best route is for the OP to seek help from the GP for the effect that it is all having on her own mental health.

Has the op thought about her and her dh going away on holiday for 2 weeks, leaving no food in the house and ensuring valuables are locked away? Perhaps the daughter will then have a small taste of independent living. If they then come home and find the place trashed they should call the police. This might give her the shock she needs.

Hi first can I say that the advice on here is great but you could be decribing me at 17, 18 and , I was simply horrid to my parents I would shout, scream and tantrum, when I think back I must have been depressed as everything seemed bad I felt worthless, useless and ugly, but now things did change by the time I was 19 I got a job and I turned things around, don't totally give up on her though although I realise that will be hard offer her a way out.

**a way back and don't close the door compleatly

At 24 she should be paying you some rent or be moving out. Get her to apply for jobseekers allowence if she hasn't done so already. DD2 was a bit like this the year before she went to uni. But DH insisted she applied for Jobseekers allowence, She didn't do much around the house but did wash up her things and did her own washing, She is now in her 2nd year at uni and although we still wory about her a bit she now has a part time job and has managed to pay her bills ( although we do help her with rent).

Just checking in to find out what the doc said.