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Unconditional Parenting Support thread

367 replies

tillymama · 04/12/2010 12:50

This thread is a safe place for those of us who have read the book and are trying to implement these ideas into our family lives.

It is also a place where people who are interested in the concept of Unconditional Parenting can find out more, and ask questions from those of us who use it day-to-day.

This is not a place to debate whether or not UP is the best thing since sliced bread, or a laughable concept. If you wish to debate, please start your own thread.

----

Good starting points for people wanting to know what UP is all about:

The principles of UP
Alfie Kohn's website
Buy the book!

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
AngelDog · 21/04/2011 22:46

Thank you, Bertie MFM.

I think you're right, Bertie - he is very keen on having his independence. I think I need to spend more time giving him opportunity to walk in safe places. Since he's been walking outside I've been mostly out with friends / occupied trying to do things round the garden and I think he's been needing more focussed attention than I've been giving him.

Fortunately he's pretty clear that he wants me to walk with him to places (apart from the library where he's been practising walking for ages - there he dashes off without even looking to see if I'm keeping up with him Grin).

Incidentally, also following the Continuum Concept idea, I give him lots of independence indoors: we rarely use stairgates and he maraudes around the house completely unsupervised at will. He's taught himself to climb safely backwards down the stairs, is currently teaching himself to walk sideways up & down (clutching onto the banisters) and has only fallen down them 3 times despite being up & down at least 20 times a day. (And 2 out of those falls were whilst being distracted supervised by DH.)

I like the physical distraction idea, Moonface: I'll give it a try I might be laissez-faire when it comes to stairs but it'd never occurred to me to try DS on my shoulders

BertieBotts · 22/04/2011 10:31

On shoulders is great - DS hates it though. A ring sling is useful when they are up/down a lot, but a complete pain if they fall asleep in it.

MonkeyandParrot · 22/04/2011 22:07

Bertie - thanks, good to know I'm not the only one! She walks everywhere (pushchairs are for babies) and has just finally agreed to sit on a bike. Not pedal yet but I am hopeing that that might make life easier as it will be a bit more of a fun way to go from A to B. I have also discovered that setting alarms seems to help, this morning we were at a church event so had to leave at a set time so I gave her 5 mins slots for each thing (toliet, wash hands and face, pretend to brush teeth, get dressed undressed because the shorts are the wrong red and get rederessed) and set alarms making it into a game. I had planned some overlap and if the metro hadn't of been running late we might even of made it on time. I got this idea from Charlie and Lola and it worked a treat.

Angel - my 14 month old is just the same. On the metro this morning DD2 decided that she wanted to crawl out of the doors. I tried story books, games, singing, favourite toys, food, breastfeeding and even DD1 joined in trying to entertain her but all she wanted was to crawl out of those doors. I think some children are just single minded (DD1 is easily distractable) and it is harder to distract them. In the end I just let DD2 vent her fustration (bonus was we got a seat :-) ). I think sometimes there are things that they can't do but can't understand why.
And I don't know if it would work for your son but DD2 is also mastering walking and walks everwhere with a dolls pram. I plan to attach a pole to said pram so I can steer her in the right direction and having something to push seems to encourage her to move at the same pace as a snail a little faster. DD1 did a simillar thing with a trolley that had a parent handle and it really helped

Lastly a quick question about continum concept - what do you do when they don't learn? DD1 fell off a trampaline three times today in a row doing the same thing! After fall 2 I physically demonstrated where she was going wrong but she promtly did the same thing again! She has been doing this a lot lately and seems to lack any sense of danger I was on the beach last month with a friend and our children, she also uses UP and was watching the kids while I breastfed. DD1 started to wander off and my friend didn't follow her believing that she would stop at a point and check where we were and head back. I told friend to follow as DD1 would quite happily follow the beach all the way round the UK without bothering to look back.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

mummyosaurus · 22/04/2011 22:19

Marking my place.

I have been imperfectly UPing for about 5 years. So:

No star charts.
No forcing them to say sorry (give a hug to make child "feel better"), they say sorry now at 5 an 6 as they do understand what it means.
Meetings instead of the naughty step. talk abut how they felt in the situation and how they could have handled it better.

Find it very hard not to use rewards (ok, bribes) and slip up on punishments when under pressure.

4 yo DS a real challenge when my dad is breathing down our neck as he's mid paddy.

Overall think UP is the way to go and my kids are kind, caring, great at making friends, not really naughtier than others.

I really think that time will tell and in 10 years time I'll know if it worked...

neepsntatties · 23/04/2011 07:15

Can I ask for some help? I have a ds 3 and a dd 3 months. Since dd came along I have found ds difficult to deal with. I am using reward and time out because I don't know what else to do but I don't like it.

What do you do when you say please don't do x and your child does x? I am so tired and grumpy with ds I feel like an awful parent right now.

ommmward · 23/04/2011 13:48

Find a way to get yourself some more sleep as a priority

Find a way to spend 1-on-1 time with your ds (in naps, or with the little one in a sling or pram, or with someone else looking after the little one) and really focus on meeting his needs in that time.

Just stop with the time out!

Please remember that the transition to two children is absolute hell. It begins to get a little better around 3 months, and then I'd say that by 6 months you'll feel like you begin to have a family rhythm again, and by the time the second child is 12-18 months, life will be pretty groovy. So go really really easy on your older child for the next year, yeah? There will be all sorts of demands made that seem completely unreasonable to you. Meet them as far as possible, or trump them with something he'd like even better than whatever evil thing he is suggesting.

And invest in a lot of structural discipline - discipline your house not the child (I think we've talked about that up-thread a few months ago) because keeping the paint out of sight and reach means that painting is something you can purposefully do together rather than trying to stop your child just get the paint out and paint the kitchen walls while you are in the middle of breastfeeding. That sort of thing

WildhoodChunder · 23/04/2011 14:34

I think it's useful to try and remember from your DS's point of view that his world has changed, utterly, but he needs to know that the way mummy feels about him hasn't. That's why he's playing up, for attention, but you probably know that. I second the one to one time, during naps or whatever, or if you can leave baby with someone for an hour to take DS for treats, to the park or whatever.

If you can work on building the bond with the siblings it might help things a bit, if your baby is smiling if you can point out to your DS when she is smiling at him "look, she likes you", or "look, she's watching you" at meals, playing etc. Focusing on the baby being "his sister" and not "the baby". The Sibling Rivalry book from the How To Talk So Kids Will Listen people was quite interesting, as was another one, Raising Happy Brothers & Sisters. If you have time or energy to read, that is!! One of the things that sort of helped us was baby had some toys of his own (genuinely his own, we told DD it was DS's frog, etc) and DD has toys of her own but wants to play with baby's, so we tell her he is letting her have a turn with them, and then "shall we give them back to DS?" when she's finished. She seems to understand that at 2yrs and so far is quite "kind" with letting DS take turns with her toys too, although we never push that, she's taken it on herself to reciprocate. And she gives him his toys when he's crying, it's quite sweet really. For the most part, they get on well so far.

Distraction is my biggest tool at the moment. And not dwelling on the 'bad' - DH will tell DD not to do something and spend ages going over the point of conflict, which makes it a bigger deal, whereas telling her not to do that because (insert reason), and would you like to come choose a book to read instead, tends to work better - if she says no, then I say "really, not even (title?) Or (title?)" Sometimes she'll then engage in the alternative activity, or sometimes I'll keep up the dialogue but do something silly with the book, like put it on my head and say "is this how we read it?", anything to keep her mind off what she wants to do that she can't/shouldn't. Or if she does do something she shouldn't, telling her why she shouldn't have done it, but not giving her loads of attention for it, giving her attention for something else more positive. Make the point and move on. I will take things away if they are being used to hit with, but explain why ("because you hit me with it and it hurts mummy and gives me a bad bump, so we need to play with something else now" - possibly not strictly UP though) and distract onto another activity.

Sometimes she does things she know she's not supposed to and I am struggling a bit with that so I probably need to find some new ways too! (She says as she nurses a sore nose from being hit with a cup this morning - although that was a result of too much TV and cabin fever from being cooped up with poorly DS and a listless me from being up all night with DS. She did say sorry afterwards, so I cling to that as the message getting through, but if she'd not done it in the first place would be preferable. I'm starting to talk to her about her feelings and using words rather than hitting but it's a little early for that still I think. I do tell her we don't hit people, if we want to hit, we hit drums though.)

neepsntatties · 23/04/2011 14:52

Thanks, I feel very overwhelmed right now. I used to try and use logical consequences if I could but sometimes there aren't any. I just don't know how to handle those moments where I am saying to him don't throw that or don't slam the door or whatever and he does it anyway.

ommmward · 23/04/2011 15:25

neepsntatties please bear in mind that it's really easy to be wise when one no longer has a newborn... truly, I would say that my family life began to get itself back on track when my second child was about 18 months old. So please take any of this in that light, yeah?

Stop saying "don't throw that". Say "A throwing game? What a fab idea!" and help him throw things you do want to have thrown. Like a competition for throwing dressing up clothes back into the clothes pile, or for throwing balls into a box or something.

And... any particular reason why he shouldn't slam the door? Will it wake the baby? Could you put the baby somewhere out of earshot? My children ADORE slamming doors sometimes. It makes such a satisfying echo-ey bang. Or is it a door slam in anger? If so, then the better you get at heading the anger off at the pass, the less the door slamming will happen.

You've read the stuff about the arrival of a new baby being a bit like your husband bringing a new wife home, yeah? And it's not just that you have no say, and that you are supposed to be ok with him sharing his body with the new wife in front of you, constantly, but you are also supposed to be nice to her, and to say "I love you, new wife, I really do", even though he never goes on dates with you any more, and does nothing but wash her clothes for her [roll]. Remembering that stuff helps me to cut my children some slack around new sibling time...

mummyosaurus · 23/04/2011 15:29

neepsntatties, what I would do is explain clearly why you don't want him to throw it - someone is going to get hurt/it will get broken and so on. I know he's two but it will sink in.

If he still keeps at it, I'd instigate a meeting (which I've taken from playful parenting), go and sit out with him, ask him why he threw the brick, was he feeling angry? how could he have handled his anger better?

It seems silly with a 2 year old, but it does improve and if you keep at it, it gets easier and quicker.

Good luck (my DS is 4 with a big sister, so I've been through it).

nappyaddict · 23/04/2011 15:29

DS is about 18kg and too heavy to carry but would a sling make him easier to carry iyswim? Is he too old/heavy for a sling? Might be useful for when he refuses to leave somewhere?

nappyaddict · 23/04/2011 15:31

ommmward Do you use anything other than water on your own hair and how often? I have heard of people using bicarbonate of soda and things instead of shampoo.

neepsntatties · 23/04/2011 15:33

Like the game idea! The door thing is just so he doesn't hurt his fingers, he trapped them in a door recenly and it wasn't nice.

That wife analogy is really good too thanks.

WildhoodChunder · 23/04/2011 15:38

A post in haste, but neeps, have you tried the "invisible ball" game? If DD is throwing something I tell her we can't throw that because (it breaks, will break stuff) but we can throw balls... if I don't have an actual ball to play with her then we use the invisible ball - pretend you are holding a ball and then throw it up in the sky, then pretend it's got stuck and you don't know when it's coming down. Then pretend it's suddenly coming down and act surprised, or throw the invisible ball to DS for him to throw back. Or pretend it's suddenly really heavy and you can't lift it. DD loves it! She'll point at where it is and everything. Sound effects optional...

ommmward · 23/04/2011 16:15

I use an Ergo with mine comfortably up to at least 2 stone (can't translate into kilos) - or a mei tei would do the trick I guess (I converted to Ergos a few years ago, having been faffing around with mei teis and podeagis and things, but the Ergo is in fact the knees of the bees. IMO)

When I first went shampoo free, I used bicarb of soda for the transition. With lemon juice for conditioner. Then years and years of just water. When I swim (not just splashing with children; real goggle-worthy pound-up-and-down-the-lengths swim) on a regular basis, I get back into using shampoo, because I can't stand how sticky the chlorine makes my hair.

Door hinges - someone is anxious about this in our house too, so he invested in some of these: www.kindagard.com/

ommmward · 23/04/2011 16:16

(NB might well not have been that brand, but that's the type of product he got)

Othersideofthechannel · 23/04/2011 16:19

What about one of those foam Us that you hook over doors to stop them slamming?

juuule · 23/04/2011 16:25

I put a folded towel over the top of the door to stop it slamming. Cheap solution :)

ommmward · 23/04/2011 16:34

Folded towel solution Not Allowed in my house, where EVERYONE except me prefers to keep doors shut All The Time.

juuule · 23/04/2011 17:00

That's another solution to slamming doors. Keep them shut. If toddler can reach the handle to open it maybe move the handle higher so he can't reach it until he's older and can understand not slamming doors?

I hate slamming doors due to niece and nephew losing the end of their fingers this way. (different incidents) So, I'd put up with the open door and towel for the short time they do the slam thing.

mummyosaurus · 23/04/2011 17:46

I'm going to use that invisible ball. Love it.

PenguinArmy · 23/04/2011 18:44

Think the thread is a little too big to read fully but am working my way through the last page.

DD is 13 months. Has walked since 8.5 months so we've got used to her walking in the street etc. She another who doesn't necessarily learn. SHe still dives off head first from the sofa. I was/am quite relaxed about letting her fall over when she learnt to stand/walk/run etc, but not off the sofa (we have hardwood floors).

I am also pg (15 weeks) and am now a little scared again reading some of the above (but will continue reading). Still BF so the tandem dynamic should be interesting if we get that far (am hoping to)

i haven't gone into UP too far yet as I work and DH is the SAHD, but that's due to change. He agrees with the concepts of UP but to implement it fully I need to do all the research and stuff and I feel wrong telling DH how to parent if he's the SAHD.

Less rambling and more reading required from me

PenguinArmy · 23/04/2011 18:52

We've had a kari-me with DD but not sure it will last another one. We like it as DH has a dodgy back, so we feel it's the best one for him. Is the ergo one with clips? I still get on fine the the kari-me, but DD is a right fidget/climber so we often don't use it anymore.

DD also spends the whole of library time running out the door Grin

I feel tiredness effects how we parent a lot, especially DH. She often wakes up every 2 hours (although we've had a few good nights lately). She also wakes up at 5am. So he often feels he doesn't have the energy to deal with the way he would like and I can see he doesn't think about things just reacts. I think the second one will sleep through before she does (well I bloody well hope so, not sure I can do another 2 years, this one has been hard enough, though at least I can nap if I'm not working FT). Really looking forward to not returning to work after 3 months

MonkeyandParrot · 24/04/2011 18:02

Welcome PA :-) I'm afraid to tell you that I haven't slept through the night in 3 years between horrendous pregnancy DD1 and DD2! DD1 now finally at 2.5 sleeps through occasionally but usually gets up once a night. DD2 at 14 months still feeds every 2 hours. Tandem feeding is great though - my best tip with night feeding is to dream feed the tiny when the big wakes for a feed. That way you don't feed big, fall blissfully back asleep and get woken by tiny 30 mins later. Took me months to figure that out!

PenguinArmy · 24/04/2011 18:05

no no no no This one will take after her father Grin

thanks I am preparing myself for the possibility of another non-sleeper. I've kinda of got used to waking every 2 hrs anyway Hmm.