Another unconditional parenting question!

[Simic]

This one is addressed to Tillymama and all the other people out there interested in unconditional parenting! What do you do with the getting ready when child just wants to stay at home and play but you have GOT to be off by a particular time? Like getting to preschool in the morning, every morning, when I've got to be at work by 9.
I know that Alfie Kohn sees it as really important to try to reduce the amount of time pressure. I see it like this too - but it's just not really feasible with my work start.
Secondly Alfie Kohn suggests discussing the problem with the child to find a solution together. The problem that I've encountered with that is the phenomenon "Yes, I'll do that tomorrow morning and every morning" only means "I love you, Mum and Dad, and I want to please you". A five year old can't actually follow the logic of "it's my solution to a problem and I want to make it work - even in the morning when I really just want to play".
Any ideas???

Children are part of a family; the adults run that family (however hippy dippy we're a team you want to be about it); therefore children have to fit in with the adults' timings. Some things are negotiable - peas or sweetcorn / red or blue t-shirt / and some things aren't - it's time to go now / it's bedtime etc.

Otherwise, what you think is negotiation can easily become manipulation - with parents allowing themselves to be manipulated. Maybe okay with a toddler but pretty silly when the child has to fit in at school, in the playground, at the dentist etc.

To TrinityMother, you see I would do that if it was going to make us miss the school bus or me late for work. But only as a last resort
I wouldn't do it without giving reasons why we needed to go now and finding a way making swallowing that pill more acceptable to my child.

We don't do UP as such although I am very interested in some of the ideas and usually try to see my DDs Point of view on things as well as mine. When we have to be out at a certain time I always explain what will be happening....we are going to get dressed, eat our breakfast then you can watch 2 peppa pigs/do a jigsaw (or whatever...) then we have to go out. I keep reminding her where we are and it usually gets us out on time with little fuss....
Small children really have no concept of time or hurrying....have you considered maybe getting some kind of visual timer..like a sandtimer and saying, you can play while the sand is running but when it stops we will have to leave...???

I don't know about other children whose parents prefer to explain and negotiate and use coercion as a last resort, but mine have no problem accepting being told what to do by people in a position of authority.

God I thought I was fairly lentil weavery, but I agree with the others who think this style of parenting sounds bonkers. IMO children enjoy boundaries and you are doing them no favours by letting them set the agenda. There are times when things need to be done now and I honestly can't see how a child s harmed in any way by learning this. We even joke in our house that we aren't running a democracy, sometimes the parents have to set the agenda, thats just the way it is for grown ups too. How sad for that poor kid at the dentist. My kid wasn't exactly delighted about going to the dentist either, but with lots of cuddles and encouragement he knew he had to. And it turned out to be fine, he isn't scared of the dentist at all no, but I bet that other kid is!

God I seem to set a lot of agendas!

Lequeen et al you are missing the point of unconditional parenting in that it's about parenting not about other adults.

It's important for kids to feel understood and respected by their parents. Other adults are of much less importance than the parental relationship and the relationship With other adults needs to be different. Negotiation with other adults is not part of the deal.

Kids who have experienced unconditional parenting turn into adults with well developed personal responsibility, high self esteem and respect for others.

Not all adults are intolerant of reasoning.

A lot of the time it is quicker to acknowledge the way a child is feeling than to coerce.

My child is perfectly behaved at the dentist and has great teeth. The kids you describe are not experiencing unconditional parenting, just ineffectual parenting. It's not the same.

But if negotiating with other adults isn't part of the deal, how on earth do the children know that? I have seen this kind of parenting in practice. Ime, it does not produce well rounded harmonious families. It produces ones where there is extra stress where there need not be, and children who are then misunderstood and thought difficult by the other adults they come into contact with. That's not really fair on anyone.

How about the old fashioned, DO this BECAUSE I SAY SO. Because I am the parent and you are child. And I know what is best for all of us and you don't.

When did negotiating with toddlers become the norm?

That's a very good point FattyArbuckel.

Children distinguish different contexts from an early age.

That has to be one of the strangest things I've ever read. Children look to you to learn what is acceptable. If they are allowed to endlessly reason with their parents about why they have to finish this puzzle right now, they will do the very same thing at nursery, where there is far less tolerance of it. They will treat all people in the same way they treat you, with very very few exceptions. You're giving them a world view that everyone has unlimited time for their opinion and whims. They do not. I'm not saying my dc are poor little neglected things, far from it, but they know that on the occasions I ask them to do something, I mean it. It doesn't make me a dictator, and it's not a bad thing for them to have some boundaries to adhere to.

Boobooglass, the rules at school aren't the same as at home but children understand that don't they?
They may figure it out by themselves or they may have to have it explained to them in the way that teachers explain to the early years that you have to ask to go to the toilet.
Children don't start asking to use the toilet at home after their first few weeks at school, do they?

UP is about empathising with your child, understanding and respecting their views as far as possible. This isn't really the same as "negotiating" with your toddler about everything.

You can take control of any situation with your child As appropriate, but lots of the time ordering them around just isn't the best way. Kids are not dogs.

UP is an investment in your childs emotion well being and emotional stability. Some other parents just won't get UP but tbh this is the case with any parenting style, Other than supernanny style possibly as this has been well publicised.

Your role as a parent is to prepare them for life, UP does not achieve this.

Children brought up thinking that everything should revolve around their feelings will be in for a sharp shock once they start School.

I just hope that by the time they start work the effects have worn off as I couldn't imagine having to negotiate constantly with staff I manage that just isn't the way the world works.

Fatty, I wish I was as good as presenting an argument as you!

If you had to make your child leave the house when they were not ready to, UP would expect you to respect how the child felt about that decision and leave time for the child to experience the resulting emotion before they need to move on.

Well I just don't know what to say to that.

Bailey, they aren't brought up thinking everything revolves about their feelings. They are brought up with the example that people should be considerate of other people's feelings.

I am quite happy to ask DS to go into another room if he is being annoying and he is quite happy to go! He is 7 and doesn't always think ahead that, eg, flying paper planes around someone who is trying to sew might be irritating. But once it's pointed out, he can empathise with me and go somewhere else. Likewise he will tell me if my actions are annoying him and I will consider this. I might have no choice but to pursue with the annoying activity or I might be able to do it later or not do it at all.

Aww thanks othersideofthechannel!

Baileys your understanding of UP is incorrect so your criticisms are invalid. It is worth Reading a book about it if you are interested as it can't be explained briefly and simply on a chat site.

UP prepares a child for the adult world particulay well and that is the whole point of it.

Lets take the example of getting the kids to bed. If I say 'you have to go to bed now, because I say so', they do not learn to take responsibility for going to bed themselves. It becomes me against them, I am controlling them, and they become like 'puppets' so to speak. The idea of UP is also to prepare them for independancy. If I take the time to explain why we goto bed on time etc, and even let some natural consequences of going to bed late occur, they eventually take responsibility for getting to bed on time. That way I dont have to have a power struggle every night.

I will hopefully be raising independant adults, well prepared for the real world.

just wanted to add that respecting children and their feelings dosesn't mean that you don't respect yourself and your own feelings or wishes. In fact it's a two way street if you respect them, they tend to respect you back.

it's a win win guys