MN Little Italy 16

[TheMysticMasseuse]

I HAVE STARTED A LITTLE ITALY THREAD!!!!

hooray for me!!!

notte all

bugger I started a debate re Corpo delle Donne and then missed it. Anyway my two pennys worth - I think it is worse here in Italy than the UK (but I do think the UK is getting worse all the time with Jordan, Big Brother, Wags, Kerry Katona and co). Think the levels it has sunk to here however is truly disturbing. And I blame Berluscua, his inane TV shows and promotions of dubious women to positions of power and influence blah blah.
Anyway why I am I mumsnetting when ds isn't even dressed for school ??
Am off!

How's the school going for ds gio?

Yes, Italy is the worst. I think that what is extremely serious and depressing here is that the whole objectification, the leechiness (sp), powerful men dispensing favours for sex have been normalized in the last 25 yrs (and before Berlsuconi, who remembers De Michelis? My fingers hurt at just writing his name )

In the UK there's the disturbing phenomenon of discussing celebrities body weight in every single magazine.

Interesting debate girls, who on earth is McCloud though???!!
While there are still "calendari" and Miss fecking Italia, Italy will be worse than the UK as far as women go, surely?
The UK is dumbing down with regard to people wanting to be famous giusto per, but the shows they feature on are still a bit marginal, and they do tend to disappear afterwards, (like the UK Big Brother winners, with the exception of Saint Jade sink into obscurity, you don't see them with their knockers hanging out on every trasmissione....

lol I had forgotten de michelis!!!!! he is one truly piece of s...what happened to him?

anyone read the book about italian society written by an english guy? (cannot remember anything, sorry)

yes, the body weight issue of young girls is frightening, anyone know any books about the issue of anorexia and young girls? i starved myself in my teens and felt miserable about my looks (and looking back i looked great!), very low self-esteem. I would like my daugther not to have the same issues, have a rule of never mentioning/moaning about my weight/looks as i don't want the kids influenced. There was a programme last year showing that 7 year old girls already saw themselves as fat, even though they weren't at all, they just looked nice and normal, as opposed to emaciated.

Bucharest, have you been on the moon? Kevin McCloud is god gift to women who want to build their own houses. Here is a pic www.channel4.com/4homes/images/mb/Channel4/4homes/on-tv/grand-designs/grand-designs-extras/about-kev in-mccloud/kevin-against-wall-lg--gtfullwidth_landscape.jpg admittedly he looks like the typical middle aged creep in a leather jacket, but i swear to you he is soooo much more!

I can't really get past the Kevin bit tbh....
(I do like those do-house-up programmes though!)

You don't mean Tim Parks do you? If not I'd like to know who you do mean as I love reading books like that...on Italy and vice versa...just finished Stuart Maconie's "middle England" one which was fab.

Very very thundering here, the 700 stirato'd scuola mummies are going to look very bedraggled in the schoolyard. Meno male I'm already bedraggled.

McCloud is that Tobias Jones- The Dark Heart of Italy you are thinking about?
We haven't progressed much since women were fainting in too tight corsets methinks as far as aesthetics go. Think the glut of magazines devoted to the "who's too fat, too thin, got cellulite" cult is incredibly depressing. When I was last back in the UK I was glancing at the mags in the train station and of the 10 or so of the OK, Closer genre every single one of them had Jordan on the front. Makes me so proud of the UK with choice of role model we have for girls there

lol at stirato look!

no, though i like tim parks, i think his first name is tobias? anyone can help? i would like to read an analysis (sp) of modern It society to understand what has made it what it is today..Maybe Franca knows?

Paul Ginsborg has written a history of contemportay Italy that goes up to the late 80s, so worth a read, will have a look in my library, not sure if he has written anything else. He often lectured at my university many years ago...

They're horrid aren't they? (the mags) I bought a couple at the airport (was trying to choose a new foundation) and felt so soiled after reading them...and all the photos of sleb women looking awful.....(and being poked fun at because they looked awful...)

Yes, T jONES, thank you! Has anyone read it? Didnt' he get into big trouble?

But isn't Jordan the role model for the underclass/working class girls? though i suspect for the m class girls is that other idiot of kate moss...

I look at the little girls that i know and i really think they need to develop a good sense of self!

yes, i feel soiled when i look at those mags (only at the gp's). actually my gp's waiting room the other day had Home and Gardens magazine, I was so happy!

I have got it McCloud and it is one of about 20 Must Reads I have currently promised myself will get through before logging on again to Amazon....You have jogged my memory about it so may start it today.
Is it an age thing? Were the role models when we were younger as dubious? Have I turned into a "not was it was in my day" type of person . Trying to think who I wanted to be like as a teenager and Bananarama springs to mind

Goodness I wanted to marry the guy from Duran Duran!

I think Ginsborg has written an update to his great book about contemporary Italy.
I have just bought Enrico Deaglio "Patria 1978-2008", which I'm sure it's another good read.
If you want to laugh at Italy (while crying inside) I recommend Michele Serra Breviario Comico (Feltrinelli)
If you want to approfondire your knowledge of 1970s Italy, I recommend Corrado Stajano Un eroe borghese, on the murder of Giorgio Ambrosoli (Einaudi)
Also - realy easy to read - Carlo Lucarelli Misteri in blu and Nuovi misteri d'italia (einaudi) give you a good outlook.

As for body image goes, I'm eating a panino with mortadella (which is the summa imho of Italy's qualities)...

I like Kate Moss, she dresses well, she is not asked to do anything more than that

I like Kate Moss because she doesn't feel the need to give interviews and share every detail of her life with you!
Just got DS from his first full morning-seems fine! No tears. Was a bit overwhelmed again this morn and asked where I was a few times during the morning but was fine and seemed full of it when went to pick him up.

Good old Kate Moss. Do you think she's still in love with Johnnie Depp? Me and a good friend of mine have decided that this might be the case...

, he sounds like a lovely little chap

Oh, bless the little chap.

Km does not give interviews because she would bloow the whole mistique and her career would plummet, she makes Jordan sound like a phd researcher, talk about an air head. I also thinks she is still in love iwth JD. But she IS a role model for girls, and not a good one, too skinny, too many drugs, boyfriends, only clothes and looks, nothing there. And tbh she does not look good anymore, sheep dressed as mutton. [scratch]

Oh I'm sure there are more clever people around than KM
Personally I don't expect her to be more than what she is: having a rock and roll life style and all.
And if a girl has KM as her sole role model ... well... I don't think it's km's fault.

By the way, I really don't feel that strongly about km, I don't really want to defend her . I agree she is not ageing well. I do irrationally have a soft spot for her, though.

No, don't feel strongly about her either. , and it is not her fault if lots of girls are anorexic.

I prefer V Paradis, on youtube watching her being interviewed. She is taking care of herself better i think, not physically i mean, but you dont see her splattered all over mags...mentally seems in a better place. Probably cause she bagged JD.

Of course !!!!

Thank you for books suggestions. off to read a bit before dd wakes up.

Sorry I missed the Veline discussion yesterday. Needless to say I agree with you all
I also think Berlusca has a lot to answer for in this respect too.

Pouring with rain here and I left my umbrella in the car.

well where was Mc C in Venice last night ......?
Sorry but I don't like Kate Moss how anybody can be voted model of the year when she has been seen doing drugs etc . SOrry I don't give a toss about who they are but hard drugs in my campo are a complete no go . NOw if she had won it say in 10 years after va bene we can all change but like 6 mths afterwards.
On that note off to tidy the house for the searchfordirt family invasion......

Hmmm... I feel left out as Keanu and Kevin whatsit do not really do it for me at all (and neither does Kate Moss, btw, although I did have some sympathy for her pre-drugs scandal!).

Re: veline etc - although I agree that things have got much worse in the last 10 yrs, the only main difference with the UK is that down here you see a lot more flesh on telly. But it's not like I have much more respect for Jordan or miss Katona than for Belen - veline or page 3 models are 2 sides of the same coin imo.

I think the really big problem is that women in Italy are far more discriminated than in the UK (on average), and that goes for every profession. If the average girl in Italy had the same career opportunities as pretty much any other woman in Northern Europe, then frankly I would not give a toss re: a minority that want to become veline. Paradoxically, however, showbiz is one of the few places where girls can really have a stellar career... But in turn that makes it harder for everyone else to succeed...

Oh I know I am rambling now...