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MN Little Italy 11

1000 replies

Rosa · 18/02/2009 21:03

San Remo Fans Unite......
Welcome , Ciao ,

OP posts:
DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 20:25

javier are you talking to yourself???

yes dh and I do tell them that they are beautiful all the time, especially dh. but they are so it's really an easy task . I never thought I shouldnt! Did they say that to you? I WANT them to think of themselves beautiful as much as they can now because when teens hit they'll feel rubbish and go around with a jumper tighten around their arse so not to show how big it is whether they are beautiful or not. obviously clever and funny. I'm quite proud of dd wanting to be funny and make people laugh as I think it is a great asset in a girl.

DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 20:28

pocket money? boh. I'd start quite early I think. as a principle. sometimes when we go out I make her take her purse with a few pennies in it. if she want smthing (like a sweet - oh the evil) she must use her own money. is that mean? but have not implemented fully yet.

DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 20:28

now I am talking to myself.

javierbardem · 01/03/2009 21:16

i agree, also it does not matter whether they are or not beautiful, they must believe it. it was in conversation with a friend who never tells her daughter she is beautiful so as not to encourage her vanity, how weird is that, and so that she learns to rely on other assets. i am sure there was a thread about it on here, perfectly reasonable people saying the same. And you are right your dcs are very beautiful, if my little one turns out like your dd1 i will be chuffed.
i am against pocket money at such young age, maybe nothng till 7? but not sure, will check with the mumsnetters, for pros and cons.
still thinking of the difference between selfconfidence and selfesteem..penthe are you around, don't let me come look for you in style and beauty again, i told you not to go there!

still bloody skiing the Milanese lot!

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 21:50

Hello (javier ) - no, internet connection doing strange things.

I'd say the biggest difference between self-confidence and self-esteem is the extent to which you internalise your feelings of self-worth. So, someone with good self-esteem just knows their own worth, and acts - or doesn't act - accordingly. It's a state of mind, as much as anything else.

Self-confidence, however, can be faked, I reckon. Lots of people 'confidently' do things: act, give lectures, socialise wildy at parties, etc. etc., in a way which exudes confidence, but doesn't necessarily mean they have self-esteem. Self-confidence comes from knowing that you can do something, because you've done it already successfully (e.g. acted well on stage, etc.); thus you have the confidence to go out and do it again.

That's what I think, anyway.

I've always told the children and young people I've babysat that they're beautiful: because they are. Beauty is a complex kind of thing, but children generally have it in one form or another.

Also, model-like beauties - people with film-star like good looks - are generally rare (otherwise there would be no models, etc.) - few people can live up to that kind of "beauty". But, the most beautiful adults I know in RL have a quirkiness or special quality that comes from confidence and self-composure - that makes them beautiful. You can instil that kind of beauty in a person, I think, by telling them how beautiful and precious they are to you (Dawn French talks about how her dad told her all the time that she was beautiful, and that she's always believed it).

I fully intend to tell my DD that she's beautiful all the time. I tell her now, actually, but at 9mo, I think she's pretty oblivous to flattery! There are enough people in the world to make young men and women feel inadequate about their appearance: their mums and dads should tell them they're lovely!

I think I first got pocket money when I was 7.

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 21:59

Also, I think that vanity is - strangely - a symptom of lack of self-esteem: people become obsessed with their looks because it's the only aspect of themselves that they value (and thus think that others value).

A well-rounded person, even if told they're beautiful, will usually place greater value on their other qualities over their perceived "beauty".

Therefore, telling your children they're beautiful as part of a general package of love is unlikely to make them vain.

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:02

Now I'm talking to myself!

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:06

Oh, and look here: people are getting all anxious about poo!

DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 22:08

btw I only made dd1 use her 'own' money twice and she could not understand the change she got back, obviously. so I don't know what I am talking about. will see.

penthe you are so eloquent and so right. your explanation of selfconfidence and selfesteem sounds absolutely right to me although I wouldn't have been able to put it into words.

the more I think about it the more I cannot believe how someone can not tell their children they are beautiful or anything positive. first of all penthe is right plenty of people will be putting you down in life. but worse than anything else your parents' opinion is one if not the most important one. and if positive comment and opinion can seem to go unnoticed (not true) the lack of it or negative one can have lasting damages.
most friend with beauty hang-ups have been told they were ugly by mum or dad, or made to feel that way. as a child I felt loved, cared and appreciated. I am sure it gave me the self esteem I think I've got. I want my kids to have that as it is priceless and helps in not getting into abusive relationship (cheap psychology). don;t get me wrong all this does not mean I will succeed or that I won't make mistakes but I'll try.
what about the 'ogni scarrafone e' bello a mamma sua'?... can a parent really see their child as ugly??

thanks for compliment javier. you know how I feel about your ds already and minidara is gorgeous.

francagoestohollywood · 01/03/2009 22:10

Ciao!
Sorry I disappeared without warning, but my connection dropped on Wednesday night, while deciding that me and dd would join the rest of the family in the mountains. So we did on Thursday as soon as I finished working.
The weather was great, sunny with lots of snow and I was chuffed to see all the progress ds made on his skis! I now goes everywhere and the 3 of us skied together for a bit while dd played in the "campetto" with dh's aunt.
So, I skied again after nearly 9 yrs ... I now everything hurts, even my toenail.
I hope you all had a good end of the week, and, as usual, I missed you

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:13

Awww, Pippi - no-one was judging you about your DD's pocket money! FWIW - I used to love spending "my own" money: felt all grown up and special.

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:13

Awww, Pippi - no-one was judging you about your DD's pocket money! FWIW - I used to love spending "my own" money: felt all grown up and special.

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:14

Oops! Got a bit over-excited there!

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:15

franca! ciao! Welcome back! Glad you had a good time (even if you're hurting - but it's a virtuous, good feeling of hurt, non?)

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:18

We missed you too - as you can tell by our outraged realisation that you weren't here, and were possibly out there having a RL!

francagoestohollywood · 01/03/2009 22:18

Maybe... or just a bit depressing, when you realize your "agile" years are well behind you

I bizarrely felt guilty for not having been able to tell you all that we were going for a few days

francagoestohollywood · 01/03/2009 22:19

What have you been chatting about? I'm too lazy for reading back the whole thread.
Any news?

DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 22:20

oh I didn't feel judged at all this time . i was just reflecting on my rambling. dd likes spending her 'own' money too especially when is for the muswhroom marshmallow . but don;t think she would understand the concept yet. I am very keen on her having pocket money early (not sure what that means though). don;t think dh is though as his little princess can have anything they want and more (maybe untill they start wanting everything and more ).

welcome back franca, you've been truly missed. very jealous.

javierbardem · 01/03/2009 22:22

oh thank you penthe, so basically somebody could have lots of self;confidence because they are good at swimming but have quite low self-esteem....butif you have high self-esteem are you always confident? you can still have high self-esteem and be a shy person though, what do you think?

lol, you summed it up, they need a good package of love our children. i hope i fuck them up just a little bit as opposed to lots..

Today i was also thinking about the sort of image that we like to present to other mumsnetters, which may not be our true image/self - the way we do in life. And it is interesting to see that with some mumsnetters through reading their posts one can see that the image is not real, but a fake. Sorry I am not making sense, better go back to my graphic novel. Anyone read Persepolis?

javierbardem · 01/03/2009 22:26

oh, no judging pippi!
Ciao Franca, I thought you had run off with Brange!!!!!!!
just read my rambling post, have not been drinking...

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:27

Yes, I think a person with good self-esteem is generally confident, although this doesn't necessarily translate into "bold acts", IYSWIM. A lovely calm normal person who lives a very ordinary life can value themselves and have self-esteem, and never really do anything which require confidence. Does that make sense?

Yes, I often feel people project a lot: like they want people on here to like them for what they think they should be? I mean, WTF? It's an anonymous forum: you're a screen-name!!! I think a lot of that pious, holier-than-thou, bitchiness comes from that: people ganging up, trying to be popular. So weird, when no-one knows who anyone is anyway.

franca: we talked about: babies (not) sleeping; private education and issues of social integration; beforesunrise is going skiing too ; stressful playdates.

Errrr, probably other stuff, but I am too forgetful...

javierbardem · 01/03/2009 22:29

little correction: my friend does not like to tell her daughter that she is beautiful and does not like other people to tell her, but she is always telling her how intelligent she is, and how strong she is.

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:29

No, not read Persepolis: but keep meaning too.

franca - bad news . My local Waitrose have stopped doing the recipe cards!

I've got the Food Illustrated for the past couple of months, though: shall I send them?

Penthesileia · 01/03/2009 22:31

Sounds like your friend is doing a good job of bolstering her DD's self-esteem; but I still think that making her feel beautiful wouldn't spoil her.

DamonBradleylovesPippi · 01/03/2009 22:31

read persepolis when first came out. loved it. movie great too but the books better. there's three in all - can lend when I found the right box.

now I must go to bed.

I hope I pass on a quite true/whole image of myself in here. maybe too much actually - should be more secretive at times.
although when you post once on a thread it is probably difficult to convey the whole of yourself even if you want to. in our thread we are too normal to be fake ifswim.

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