Are there a lot of nasty people about or is it just me that brings them out? and what should be done if anything?

[WideWebWitch]

I feel like some kind of middle class reactionary (which I'm not, I'm a fairly hard core Guardianista) but I'd be interested in hearing what people think about this.

While walking along a quiet 30mph country lane with dp and 2 children this afternoon, a car came racing along doing at least 50mph. He was going so fast I immediately shoved ds into the hedge to make sure he wasn't hit. We were walking on the right side of the road on a pavementless road in single file, in daylight. At the same time I threw my hands up in a 'what do you think you're doing' way. The guy stopped about 100yds on, opened his door wide enough (but didn't get out) to scream at me 'Yes, I'm using the road and I pay fing taxes, so f off, you f*ing slag.' How sweet, and in front of my children too! So my questions are:

Have I been living in the countryside for too long if I think this is disgusting, unacceptable behaviour?
Is this why people keep their mouths shut and walk on by while tossers like this get away with abusive language and attitude? In general, I mean.
Why are people like this?
Are people more like this then they used to be? Why?
Should I keep my mouth shut at all times? (some of you may remember I was screamed at in the park recently for daring to ask a lone 7yo if he was ok)
Has this sort of thing happened to you or do you just not ever do things like throw your hands up in disgust (I realise it may be me!)

This completely spoiled our walk, any and all views on this, NOT just on my specific incident, welcome.

BTW, apollogies to WWW for hijacking the thread with completely unrelated subject. (Almost completely...)

oh yes. Sorry. I'll take my 'find me a place to live' somewhere else.

At least we're all in agreement about the angry tossers out there.

ws: thanks for clarification. Am packing bags now. Should I take 7 or the full complement of 14 underpants ?

Ooh, I'd take all 14 - go on, be a devil.

JanH: The link for London is here .

Actually, it's quite interesting to tile them all across the screen or print them out and compare.

ws:

Excuse me, another hijack, but hub2dee you could always try Vermont - my home state. More cows than people, definite seasons, gorgeous, spacious, not as much rain as UK!
Mind you, employment difficult, v. white, major cities 2+ hrs....
quite funky though...

(Sorry about your rotten experience WWW!)

www - you poor thing. The man was a total tosser. I've been feeling a bit put out over the last several months or so about the fact that a lot of people are so RUDE nowadays - I was on a packed bus with ds the other day who had fallen asleep, when it was our turn to get off I was trying to manhandle him (in my arms and he's a hefty 3yo so a dead weight) and a buggy - and people could see me trying to get off and were still piling on! So I treated them all to a tirade about how they clearly didn't have any manners - and how rude and stupid they were - I was fuming - then met dh who pointed out I was lucky I hadn't been knifed - but FFS someone has to tell them so good on you I say and forget about that arse, he clearly doesn't have a willy.

So, what are peoples take on why we are so "aggressive", rude and downright nasty today? Were we like this 20 years ago? 30 years ago? Is it because of too much money, lack of respect, what? Things have definitely changed in terms of how we "deal" with one another, and from this thread, its not just in the big cities. Its all over the place. Is it the water? Aspartame?, just plain selfishness? Is it cause we think we can get away with it? Last year at around this time, a fool driver crashed into me at 40 miles an hour. He left the scene, despite the fact he saw three young children in my car, and me bleeding. What kind of animal would do that? Did that happen regularly 30 years ago. It just seems to be an era of not giving a shit. And its getting worse. Very little ethics, even less morals and pure selfishness.

m/d/ww: Was wondering about all this... I think it would also be interesting to have statistical support for the claim that everything's gone to pot.

An economist friend claims, for example, the stats do not show London - for example, Coddy - has become more violent, but merely that the # of incidents has increased with # of residents, or that the type of crime is different... (is mobile 'phone snatching the new Dickensian pick-pocketing ?)

I guess I'd be after reputable published stats instead of anecdotal...

So, HAVE things actually got worse / people ruder / more violent ? AND WHY...

Will have to have conversation with self:

Others below have posted incidents where women were the rude psychos, but I think the % overall is strongly male-biased.

Is it an evolution of the sex role stereotype ? Could it be fair to postulate that 50, or 100 years ago men were more 'gentlemanly' and suave whereas now men need to be 'hard' ?

Nice day isn't it.

Yes, lovely.

Could it also be the increasing influence of the media and the constant presence of the televisual in our lives ?

Are footballers (and their) followers new demi-gods ?

Is the increasing sensationalisation and violence on TV / in films to blame ?

What about the need for 'more news - the gorier the better' ?

Must go feed myself.

OK. Speak later.

I am interested in stats and why/if we are like this too h2d. But screaming baby demands I go! Maybe men have more time for aggression since women are getting on with bringing up the children? (JOKE!)

www, so maybe it will all be fixed over the next 50 - 100 years as men become more equal partners in childcare ?

Quite an interesting bunch of dads here on www.homedad.org.uk , for example.

Got to wonder if the population was comprised of 20 - 50% homedads, if things might feel different...

But then again, it is possibly not the same 20 - 50% 'caring men' who stop their cars to harrass women and children, so maybe nothing would change....

Stephen Biddulph would no doubt say it was due to a lack of strong role models and male mentors while young men are growing up...

When you watch 'brats' on Oprah going to 'brat camp' and seemingly responding well to the harsh discipline of the 'boot camp instructor' perhaps there's something there, GeroginaA.

However, I wonder if the percentage of 'inappropriately aggressive acts' amongst women reveals that it is not just about young boys and their paternal role models but a more general role model / social phenomena issue...

Yes but it has only been the last 30 or so years that people have been of the opinion that they can do what they like, & have brought their children up to think the same... presumably this is the result?

I was brought up the "old" way. When our school went comprehensive there was a gap below us for a year. It was very noticeable when the new kids came in, the big shift from the way we were to the way they behaved. We were terrified of 6th formers- these new 12 year olds tried to push the 6th formers around.. that sort of thing. My parents grew up in the war- it seemed to be the parents after that who started the rot..

Tinygang,

but it's hard to know what dog owners are doing if you are not a doggy person yourself, from the other side of things what I prefer is for a dog owner to make a clear verbal statement when my kids clock a dog: She's friendly or she's not good with kids. Then I can act accordingly.

there's a European office of aggressive behaviour!

Hmm, it's all down to the parents. Maybe.

No! It's televised violence! Maybe.

From www's middle link"

"He claimed that parental control and family environment were the most important factors in forming an aggressive person.

Studies have shown that aggressiveness is lowest in children with low parental control and a highly loving environment.

Prof. Hinde therefore concluded that a child?s environment is the most important factor in determining a person?s aggressiveness.

Despite this priority placed on a child?s home life, outside influences, such as the media, can also influence a child.

Creating an aggressive person is a very gradual processes, with causes acting upon other causes over a long period of time."

Interesting...

Erm... does that mean it's all the mums' faults again ???

DH had a run in with an aggressive chap yesterday. Out with the boys and dog. Chap throws a ball for his dog and of course our dog chases it as well. Both dogs reach it at the same time, but, as ours is twice the size of the other dog, other dog comes off worse. No aggression from our dog, just enthusiasm. Chap went beserk at DH complaining of people who can't control their dogs, etc., and how his dog had had an operation and her stitches were about to burst. Well, I'm sorry, but if she was that delicate, why is he taking her out and chucking balls for her???

DH said that he was very apologetic at first and really laid into our dog, but said afterwards that, if he'd known about the stitches, he'd have been a lot less conciliatory.

Problem is I often take the dog to school and the chap was one of the dads at school, so guess who will have to run the gauntlet of nasty comments when the boys go back??

That's why we should all keep cats. Obviously it is the nation's canine obsession behind the current 'river of rage.'

Problem solved.

Message withdrawn