Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Other subjects
Original poster

Michael Jackson programme ..

261 replies

bundle · 03/02/2003 17:06

..is on tonight, where he's being followed by Martin Bashir including around the infamous hanging the baby from the balcony incident (on Tonight..with Trevor MacDonald) - so don't forget to watch it should be a hoot
(I'm off out so I've just left an ansaphone message for dh to record it )

OP posts:
anais · 07/02/2003 21:57

Am I alone in thinking those children aren't his? I don't buy the 'coloured' theory - the suggestion that the children of black parents can come out any colour of the spectrum - come on! The children are white, with dyed blond hair - I just don't believe they're his.

Clarinet60 · 07/02/2003 22:08

breeze - perhaps the other 14% were paedophiles.
aloha - spot on.

Frieda · 07/02/2003 22:10

Agree, anais. Hate to bring racism into this, but he clearly has such an issue with his own 'blackness' (all the surgery, which has taken him a million miles away from it, though to what?), it seems highly improbable he'd choose a black mother to bear his kids. If they are his at all.

Moomin · 07/02/2003 22:32

re Mark Lester. Don't know what he does now, but saw him on GMTV being interviewed in his plush Cheltenham home, with his 3 daughters on his lap - presumably to show how well-balanced and grounded he is. Obviously not taking eternal youth potion now, but I'll bet MJ contacted him originally after seeing him in Oliver / Prince & Pauper / Black Beauty, etc. (Unless they both went to Famous Childrens Club together)

WideWebWitch · 08/02/2003 09:22

I saw half of this when it was repeated on ITV2 last night. I really don't know what to think TBH. He's clearly a complete fantasist (2 operations? I think not) and barking but I'm not sure if he's a paedophile. If you were then would you talk about children and them sleeping in your bed so openly? Wouldn't you be careful about talking about it? OTOH, he is such a fantasist that I can imagine he believes it's all normal. The way he talked about his (? Hmm) children being a present to him was chilling and I certainly don't think he's fit to look after children, his own or anyone else's. What are Gavin's parents on? Awe in the face of fame maybe.

lou33 · 08/02/2003 13:19

I would suspect that Gavin's parents thought they could get a subsidised lifestyle from mj. He looks quite streetwise for a 12 year old. Still doesn't mean the relationship is healthy though.

jac34 · 08/02/2003 14:21

Anais,
You also noticed that his children had dark roots to their "blond" hair then. I can't believe that any parent would bleach their childs hair !!!

janh · 08/02/2003 14:28

anais, the mother of the older two is white and blonde. I know a mixed family where one of the children is not only not even slightly black, she has reddish hair.

The jury's still out on the other mother.

Rhubarb · 08/02/2003 18:17

Oh come on! For bad parenting how about Courtney Love, whose little girl has no father, never gets to see her mother, who is a foul-mouthed alcoholic flirt (to put it nicely), or Jordan who ordered a glass of sherry for her baby. We might not like their parenting skills (or lack of them) but that does not give us the right to go charging in there accusing the parents of all kinds of things we have no proof of (kinda reminds me of America and Iraq!). What we have seen is an edited film, 90 minutes worth of a stay that lasted 8 months. Obviously they have chosen to show the sensational bits as that makes good telly. They won't show him doing normal things as then it wouldn't have caused the fuss it has and not as many people would have watched it. And as for dyeing their hair, well I wouldn't do it to my kid, but then I wouldn't have her ears pierced either, or let her wear make-up and jewellry. It's no worse than any of these things.

Who knows that he doesn't tuck his kids up in bed? Who knows if they are his or not? Who knows that he has never fed them a bottle before or changed their nappies? Just because we didn't see him do any of these things doesn't mean to say that he doesn't.

I think he is naive, possibly a bad role model, very immature, disillusioned, out of his head and so on, but he is not wicked in any sense. I believe he has good intentions at heart, which is all we can hope for isn't it?

anais · 08/02/2003 21:23

Rhubarb, Courtney Love's daughter has no father because he is dead. Is that her fault? My children have no father either, does that make me a bad parent?

Personally I think what people get up to in their personal lives is their business, but when there ate children involved I do think it's everyone's responsibility to be concerned.

I think there's little doubt that his children will grow up to be very badly damaged by their upbringing and I think that's very, very sad.

When someone invites cameras into their lives I don't think they can really complain when people start talking and speculating - as has been said, if he chose to keep his family life private then he could do that. I'm not convinced that this whole "I've been betrayed" thing isn't just a publicity stunt to keep people talking.

Rhubarb · 09/02/2003 13:30

Anais, my message was not meant to imply that only having one parent is bad, if you read it correctly you will find that what I am trying to say is exactly the opposite. If we judge MJ because his kids have no mother, then why not Courtney because her girl has no father? If you have a problem with judging Courtney, then you shouldn't judge MJ either. Whether is was through choice or not, those kids do not see their mothers, which puts them in the same boat as any other child missing a parent.

anais · 09/02/2003 22:05

Rhubarb, I hardly think those poor children are like any other children in any way, that's the problem I have with the whole thing. They are not only being denied a childhood, but sentenced to an adulthood which is hardly going to be 'normal.' I feel very, very sorry for MJ, but I don't think pity for someone is enough to destroy 3 - or however many more - lives too.

willow2 · 09/02/2003 22:57

Also Courtney Love's child can't see her father because he's dead - MJ's kids can't see their mums because MJ doesn't think they need to.

Rhubarb · 10/02/2003 17:40

Well, whatever anyone thinks, we cannot simply judge him a bad father and take his kids away from him, after watching 90 minutes of footage. Apparently his crew secretly filmed Bashir, and that footage will be shown in America. Apparently it shows how underhand Bashir was in obtaining his information and interviews, and has him describing MJ as "a great father". So maybe he is. His ex-wife doesn't want to see her kids, as happens in many other families too. MJ cannot "stop" them from seeing her. When they grow up they might make the decision to track her down themselves. And again, who knows what part she does or doesn't play in their lives? She might send them presents on the birthdays, or visit them at Christmas, we just don't know, and that is the point here.

ks · 10/02/2003 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

happydays · 10/02/2003 17:54

They couldn't edit the fact that he dangled the kid from a window. I don't care if 99% of the time he is a good father, he dangled his kid from a window, if that is not being a bad father i do not know.

I am sure that we all know what the press are like and that a lot of good MJ moments were not shown, but what we did clearly see was MJ putting his kids life at risk. He loves all the attention and i am sure it was him who tipped off the press at the zoo.

Moomin · 10/02/2003 18:58

Of course the mother doesn't want to see the kids: she's been paid squillions to act as a baby-maker for him! The people around him who don't criticise have dollar bills signs in their eyes, and that includes the parents who are quite happy to let their kids have sleepovers at MJ's mansion.

Is there any reason why Gavin's parent(s) weren't there to defend MJ and also their own decision to let Gavin and siblings spend so much time there? Is this poor journalism on Bashir's part or engineered by the Jackson machine?

Tortington · 10/02/2003 19:29

its hard for us to remember that MJ's reality is not our reality, he hasnt lived in the real world for a long long time. he thinks that makin his kids wear masks is protecting them from what he went through as a child, how he was public property as a child and he doesnt want this to happen to his children. this is admirable - but.... the way he has done it is insane. its obviously going to be psycchologically damaging to the children - i can see that. but he cant he can only see hinmself as being protective.

if he loves children the way he says he does - then in his reality there is nothing wrong in being in the same room as then when they are going to sleep even if you are not theri parent.
now to me in the real world this is silly,the accusations the possible law suits and future law suits, the speculation and the ruining of my reputation would not be worth it - i would shove the kids in a guest room. but not for him, he sees nothing wrong in doing this and cant understand minds that do.

i pity him. and feel lucky i have my reality over his money. but should MJ happen to read this, as a new parent he might... i wouldnt mind a couple of grand to tide me over and your welcome to come round for tea - but you wash your own cup after u drink it

aloha · 10/02/2003 19:44

Shirley Temple turned out OK - even became an ambassador and she was a huge child star who was forced to sit on blocks of ice to make her cry for sad scenes (!). Tatum O'Neil seems incredibly grounded too, despite being her family's main breadwinner since babyhood. Mind you, she had a surrogate father for her kids - don't know if they see their father though. But they don't wear masks and as far as I know, she's never dangled them out of a window. They also have really normal - and separate names!

ks · 10/02/2003 19:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

jasper · 10/02/2003 21:23

Don't Tatum O'Neil's children reside with their father(John McEnroe) or am I getting befuddled?
He definately didn't describe her as grounded in his recent biography, claiming ( in a nice way, he did not speeak ill of her at all) she is completely screwed up - by her celebrity father and her weird childhood as it happens!

anais · 10/02/2003 21:27

I agree about the dollar signs, Moomin.

Does anyone know what would happen to one of us if we dangled our children over balconies? Surely a mere mortal would have their child taken away from them?

aloha · 10/02/2003 22:33

Sorry! Didn't mean tatum O'Neil - she's a nutter! I meant Jodie Foster. Duh! Posted sober as well... No wonder it didn't make sense.

jasper · 10/02/2003 23:11

That's funny I always mix up Tatum O'Neil and Jodie Foster too. I suppose it's the American child actor thing.
Does JF have more than one child?

aloha · 10/02/2003 23:18

Two boys. The older is called Charles, can't remember the second one's name. Not Prince though!