GF: Love her or hate her? the Great Debate. Please leave all weapons at the door and NO stomping off, offended. OK?

[SoupDragon]

OK, to avoid the Great Debate cluttering up other threads where pro-GF mums are asking for help, I've started this one. It may have been done before...

If you read another thread and have nothing helpful but want to share your GF feelings, do it here!

I guess it could get heated here so please don't get offended and storm off in a huff as has happened elsewhere with other contentious issues - just avoid this thread

OK, for what it's worth, I have no problems with GF except for the fact that all babies are different so her rigid routine may not fit in with your baby. You should maybe see her routines as flexible - half an hour or an hour either way isn't going to make much difference is it? And I think that before 6 weeks is way too young to be messing with feeding routines, especially if you're breastfeeding. It can mess up your supply in theose important first weeks and I think this is why breastfeeding counsellors seem to hate her so much.

Right, I'm off to duck beneaththe parapet and let you get on with it!

I think the problem is that the GF books are the only ones out there which advocate routine and they are at the extreme end of routine. I would have been interested in a book which suggested ways to achieve a more relaxed/flexible routine and also ways to bend a routine would have been helpful. Although I suppose that I have managed this on my own.

Have you ever thought that those mums who don't want to go out because of the baby's routines may actually prefer to stay in & therefore it is a convenient excuse? My DS sleeps practically the whole afternoon (not sure how this fits into GF - it's 'our' routine now!!) - for example today he went down at 2pm & is still asleep now (5pm) - he will still go to bed at 7pm - obviously a great sleeper !!! Therefore it absolutely suits me to have my 'own time' in the afternoon - catching up with housework, cooking, or more likely mumsnet & a good book - I turn down most invitations in the afternoon - some people might think I am being 'sad' at sticking to this routine, but it gets me out of lots of boring events!!!

Selfishly, if there is something I want to do, or really special for DS, we will go out!!

It's not true that only GF advocates routine,when I had my eldest ds in 1993,Penelope Leach was the most popular book and she definatelely gave me most of my ideas about structure and routine,but they are more about how to trust your own instincts and use that as a source for setting a routine.

Maybe some of those friends of mumsnetters who stay in unnecessarily or stick to it when it's not working are suffering from PND?
Just a thought

We follow GF with our dd and she is very happy and contented. We fit in loads of coffee mornings, NCT things, aquababies, tumble tots ...in fact we'll go to anything if there's biscuits provided.....and are still home in time for lunch and a good long kip. I'm sorry to say that I don't ever have to think about changing dd's routine during the week because nobody ever beats down my door begging me to come out on a lunch date !! I have 2 quality hours of eating, playing with the cats, watching Neighbours and fannying about with no interruptions.
Mind you, flippancy aside, I was diagnosed with PND and am taking anti depressants for it. However, I found having the GF routine to follow was the one constant in my life and I hung onto it like mad. I've suffered from depression before so knew I would always be a prime candidate for PND.
Got to go, Holby City calls....

Droile, thats my though too, and my worry. That sticking to this may make PND worse, although I do see how the structure can help some people with PND, if they have babies who fit the routine easily.
Judd - what would you do if you had a baby who needed a morning nap? Would you still go to all these activities? That seems to me to be a big flaw - how on earth does it work with 2 children?

susanmt, that was my question too, about 2 children and no-one answered me! don't want to fight with anyone but I am genuinely interested in the answer to this.

Susanmt / www : I had done a thread on that :
www.mumsnet.com/s/Talk?topicid=67&threadid=1167&stamp=020818220534

Thanks pupuce for that, what about an older child? I suppose I'm thinking a 5 yo and a baby? Again, not being awkward, genuinely interested in how you would get to playgroup etc on time if baby is asleep!

www - why the sudden interest in how to cope with a 5 y.o. and a baby using GF - have you got something to share?

Ooooh, Judd ... Holby City? Is it on again? How I miss English telly ...

What's happening in Holby this year? I used to love it so much

What's happening in Eastenders at the mo too? It was on here during the day when we first got here but they've taken it off and are covering the America's cup instead ... the last one I saw, Zoe and Antohony had announced their engagement ...

Sorry to change the subject ...

Right then, into the fray, I tried gf routine when ds about 8 weeks, after 3 days i gave up and decided to go with the flow, I had a sleepy baby who only ever needed feeding 4 hourly (both bf and then later formula). He slept when he wanted, sometimes for 4 hours at a time, then after 11 weeks it all changed, he woke up and turned into a Dr Spock baby, feeding at 6am, 10am, 2pm 6pm, 10pm etc, all of his own doing i might add.

My point is... That it is possible for a baby to develop his own routine, in his own time. I found GF too restricting and was heading dowm the slippery slope of trying too hard mixed with a large dose of pnd as I thought that by following Gf i would be a better mum. However following your own instincts makes for a good mum.

Before anyone shouts me down, my dd was a completely different kettle of fish, I had no instincts first time round, bad pnd etc and did not cope at all, and had i known about gf at the time would have prob bought the book and followed it to the letter.

IMO Instincts and experience make a good mum, this can only be acheived by making a few mistakes along the way and learning from them.

www, your question about coping with 2 and fitting in nap times, when they are tiny babies they will sleep anywhere, ie car seat, pram, whatever, so they just go along with you wherever you go, when they get a bit older, my ds is now 23 weeks he sleeps at 10am for about 45 mins to ann hour and then agai at around 2pm for an hour and a half, then off to bed at 7pm for the night, I do end up spending my morning at home, but then go out in the afternoon and ds sleeps when he can.
Does that ansewr your question?

Well I've been reading this thread ever since it started and have held off commenting but it's got to be said I'm sorry but a couple of you on here deserve a bloody big slap !

This website is fantastic and helps a lot of mums out there who are suffering and need help. If GF helps them get through the day the last thing they need is a couple of twenty-something know it alls slagging them off for doing their best. What do you two want ? A medal for being the BEST MUM ?

Of course the GF mums aren't bullying their babies - it's you two who are bullying the mums !

Leave them alone !

Great nickname. Where did you get it?
ps - I'm 30 something.

Ghosty, take a look on the BBC website - but be warned, we're a long way on from Zoe and Anthony getting engaged.

I may be wrong Droile but I don't think the comments were directed at you.

FranklyMrShankly, that's why I started this thread, to move this sort of discussion off the threads where GF mums were asking for help. This thread is for those, rather heated, discussions which cluttered up the help threads.

As I said in my original post "If you read another thread and have nothing helpful but want to share your GF feelings, do it here!

I guess it could get heated here so please don't get offended and storm off in a huff as has happened elsewhere with other contentious issues - just avoid this thread"

Unfortunately, slappng is not allowed as you were meant to leave weapons at the door (although how you could leave your hands at the door and still type is beyond me... )

As for the GF mums being bullied - rubbish! They're capable of giving as good as they get! And medals for being the Best Mum? Well, we're all the best mum for our babies, GF or not. We are the ones who know our children the best. Giving my contented non-GF baby to a GF mum is not going to make him any happier and vice versa. I doubt any of the "twenty-something know it alls" you mention could do a better job of mothering him because they don't know him at all and I don't think they would claim to be able to do this either.

Personally, I agree. If GF works for you, fine, if not, fine. No matter what anyone says, you soon develop those motherly instincts, even if they only apply to your own child. I know what my 2 want and can understand them but am hopeless when presented with a similar aged child belonging to someone else. What works for my 2 does not necessarily work for other children - which is why I'm not writing a parenting book!

FranklyMrShankly - good for you - LOL

Sorry SoupDragon I have to disagree with you, as a GF mum myself I have found certain comments read on this thread coming back into my mind constantly over the last few days - I do feel bullied, emotionally bullied, and now I feel really seriously worried that I haven't done the right thing for my dd. And I can't fight back because some people just seem to have the last word and keep on getting little digs about "instincts" etc.

We are all good mums and we deserve to have that recognised !

Scatterbrain, sorry if i caused offence, that was the last thing i intended to do, do i nedd a good slapping FranklyMrShankly!

Girly - not you sweetie ! It was whoever said that using GF was "tantamout to cruelty IMO" !!!

That phrase keeps coming into my head and brings tears to my eyes !!

I dont think it was me that said that - gosh I hope not.
I hope I've not offended anyone - I try to be balanced about GF but have SO many negative experiences of it I find it quite hard.
I do like to have the last word, though, so maybe I should stop now (not stomping off, will keep reading avidly!!)

This thread is addictive !! I keep having to come back to it - thanks SoupDragon for starting it!

Girly - you were lucky if your tiny baby slept 'anywhere' - mine certainly did not which is why I found (parts of) GF so helpful.

This 'instinct thing' - great if you've 'got it' but not all of us, I could never understand people who said 'you soon know what your child's different types of cries mean' ...... perhaps I am thick but I couldn't tell, which is why I found GF useful ........ so that he very rarely cried!

Lindy - DD is now 6 months and all the cries still sound the same. I usually guess what they mean - and am usually wrong!!!

FranklyMrShankly, I have to agree with you!! - I don't usually jump into heated threads like this, but the sanctimonious drivel was really beginning to get on my nerves - re GF I reckon whatever works for you stick with it. Happy mum, happy baby...