is this abuse?

[plantlife]

A while ago DP was shouting very loudly in an argument. I was begging him to stop shouting, it was so loud all the neighbours could hear, calling me a cunt and useless and other horrible things.

He then held me down, cupped his hands to my ear, put his mouth on it and shouted at top volume into it. This was over a year ago. He's been making an effort with me but ever since then I've had on off pain (mild) and feel more sensitive to noise. It could be psychological but he gets angry if I ask him to speak less loudly. I can't cope with maybe even normal speaking volume (but actually he speaks quite loudly). I know it's a pain but he knows why I feel sensitive. I don't know if I'm being unfair on him, he feels he can't speak at a suitable volume for me. I don't complain, I just sometimes ask if he wouldn't mind lowering the volume, I tell him know it's annoying but hope he understands.

I hope you keep talking/interacting with people in shops and on the phone. There is a big world outside your home, and there are a lot of pleasant people in it.

He doesn’t care. People who care never threaten to kill you. You are not safe with him. Be honest with the GP.

He's being so lovely to me in messages.

I don't really interact or talk to anyone now except him. I was thinking of posting on MN again under different names. I used to do that. It was nice chatting normally and pretending to be normal for a bit.

I know my bad experience with my GP was an exception rather than the rule. It's just so hard to completely trust one again. I try to be honest but I'm more wary now. I have enough pain pills for now. I can't face wasting more time and emotional energy on battling doctors this week. It's a window of opportunity to focus on possible leaving plans. I think that's the priority.

I'm not sure what to do tomorrow. Whether to try to start looking for a refuge space. I'm terrified of ending up in a worse situation further down the line. As I'm not priority need for housing, even if I manage to find a refuge space away from here, it's such a risk. I think I'd be putting myself at serious risk if I left before my health was good enough to support myself. I need to afford housing after refuge. It's a huge gamble just leaving and hoping my health will improve fast.

I saw there's a women's aid survey. They seem unable to say women without adding "and children". Every single time. It feels like they won't want to help me. They're more a family support service than a women's service, I think now. Funding pressures so they need to prioritise. Then again I suppose most women have children. I'm not normal. I wish they were honest. I understand prioritising children when resources are limited. I just wish there was transparency. They just keep saying "women and children" as if you're not a normal or real woman without them. I don't suppose you get much help if your children are grown up either. I met a woman when I tried my local drop in clinic. She was temporarily staying with her adult son in his small flat. She was looking for housing and also struggling. I know it's a sore point for me so perhaps I'm being oversensitive?

I know my fears around leaving are much more than just housing but it's so frightening. I don't want to swap one unsafe situation for a different but also unsafe one. Sorry this sounds so negative. I'm trying to be positive and calm. Thinking I should ask for help tomorrow in finding a refuge. I'm just so scared. It's such a massive and risky step. I don't want to waste the week he's away but honestly I think I can't try to leave until I'm back going outside more regularly. I'll try that this week.

Do get outside more.
There isn’t much that’s more risky than staying with someone who has threatened to kill you.

You need to carry on with the freedom programme too.

I don't know what to do. I'm too scared of being homeless 6 months down the line after a refuge. If I manage to get a refuge place, when it's time to leave I'll be so vulnerable if I'm not physically well enough to work. The local connection thing is also such a problem. Surely it's normal to be like me and need to leave the local area to be safe? He'd go mad if I left. So much DV housing seems to be for locals. I thought more women would need to leave their local areas to be away from the abuser?

I didn't make it outside today. I know I need to. Maybe fresh air will help me see things clearly in case excessive fear is clouding my judgment. My health condition was ok today but several of the neighbours are around. I can't face them. They've heard me shouting about what he's done, moaning about it, and also talking to myself. It's a coping mechanism, It's so isolating and I think I need to talk out loud or I'd go mad in a silent shut off world. I've also shouted to myself (generally after incidents with him when I'm in a bad way). Everything they've heard is all so shameful. They no doubt think I'm asking for it in a way, by not leaving. And they probably think I provoke him. I do (not deliberately) antagonise him.

I'm desperately sorry to be so annoyingly frustratingly stubborn about my fears around housing. I need to put up or shut up at some point. Maybe focus on staying safe around him strategies. At least he's away a lot with work trips. Please don't think it's worse than it is . He's threatened to kill me quite a few times over the years and never acted on it. I don't want to worry anyone. I'm sorry. I know there's only so much any of you can say. It's helped me loads just venting and expressing my fears, and just having a tiny part of being in the outside world here. Thank you for all the help and support. You all got me through a time when I suppose I felt like giving up on everything. I felt completely alone after the doctor saga.

I'm going to try to limit my rambling vents. I might post under a name change (for safety) in relevant sections if I have any practical or legal questions, in case anyone there is able to help. I'll try to write coherently and succinctly. I know it's a problem my rambling. Thank you everyone again. I really hope you're all ok, and the dogs (and any other pets). I also hope you all stay well and don't get hit with the Covid virus.

A refuge wouldn’t kick you out onto the street and they are well aware that women should leave the area where their abuser lives. I’d be more amazed if you got a refuge place locally tbh as I understand from my own experience and that of a friend who used to work in refuges that they don’t house women near to their abusers.

There are benefits to pay for housing etc. You’ll never be loaded but you should have enough to live on, especially outside of London, which is where you’ll need to be to get away from your abuser.

Worrying that you’ll end up in a worse situation is incredibly dangerous, because your situation is getting worse all the time, only you’re in it so you don’t notice. It’s the boiled frog effect. So, you spend all your time worrying about ending up in a worse situation, all the time being in an incrimentally worse situation without even being aware of it, so that worse situation you imagine would have to be worse and worse every day. the fact is that part of the reason your situation is so utterly, untenably shit is because you’re living with an abuser. You’d be amazed how much less bad a situation feels, even a shit one, when you aren’t constantly fearing what your abuser will do. I have been in some difficult situations since I left my abuser, but ultimately I have been the one who can work towards making them better. When you’re living with an abuser you don’t even have that level of control.

All this stuff sounds easy for me to say, but of course in reality it isn’t easy. Some situations are difficult to deal with, and you won’t have as much agency as you’d like, but the fact is that when you’re stuck living with an abuser everything seems impossible. Yes life can be difficult after leaving, but my god it’s nowhere near as bad as being stuck with an abuser. Even on my worst days since I left, and there have been many, I haven’t for one second wished I’d been back there with him. You can make yourself and your own life, but not when you have an abusive man to fear and control you.

You’re much more vulnerable staying with someone who has threatened to kill you.
You need to get outside. It’s like you’re looking for reasons not to. If your health condition is ok and he’s not around then you worry about the neighbours. I can guarantee you that they have stuff going on in their own lives which they are much more focussed on than you.
Just because he hasn’t killed you yet does NOT mean you are safe where you are.
You need to get RL help. You’re focussing on things that really aren’t so important such as the GP business and the neighbours and minimising the fact he has threatened your life.
Keep on with the freedom programme. I’m guessing you haven’t kept up with that.

@Plantlife Do you actually really want to get out? He’s threatened to kill you, why in the living fuck do you want to hang around and find out if he’s serious or not? He’s already damaged your hearing, prevented you from getting well, made you scared to go out and isolated you so that you don’t speak to anyone other than him.

I’m sorry my love, but nobody is going to climb in through the window and rescue you. If you really do want out then it has to be you that does the hard stuff.

You’ve been given so much good advice on this thread, and there are people here for you to sound off to, but ultimately nothing will change unless you make it happen.

You need to stop thinking about what might go wrong if you try to leave, because what might happen hasn’t happened yet and it might not. You need to start asking yourself what you do want to happen, and what you need to do to make it happen. At the moment it seems to me that you’re comforting yourself with imagined horror stories about all the terrible things that might happen to you in order to justify not doing anything. What do you think might happen if you do stay? He’s already threatened to kill you. He has definitely done that and it’s definitely in his mind, but you’re focusing on maybe ending up homeless if some imaginary thing happens but you don’t know what yet because you’ve not really looked into it. it doesn’t matter what any of us say on here, no matter how much we know about how refuges work, or housing law works, or how benefits work, you don’t want to believe us because as soon as you believe us then you run out of excuses and end up back at the point where you just don’t want to try to leave.

If he kills you then that’s it, you’re dead. No more chances to create a better life because you’ll be cold in your grave. Dead women can’t speak, so all the shit he spouts about how mental you are will be all the world hears, and even if they don’t believe him it’ll be too late for you. If he doesn’t kill you but just hurts you enough to fuck you up for the rest of what will be a shitty miserable life, even if he goes to prison, that’ll be it, game over, and you’ll be torturing yourself for the rest of what remains of your life because you kept making excuses and didn’t get the fuck out before he had a chance to destroy you.

Come on, give yourself a shake. At the moment you’re capitulating. Do you want this for the rest of your life, however long he decides that should be? At the moment you might as well already be dead, because what you have is not a life. If you want a life you have to stop making excuses and make something happen.

@Plantlife my last para was a bit strong. I don’t want to see you dead at the hands of this arsehole, or at the hands of anyone else for that matter. Please don’t take what I said the wrong way. You can have a better life, you’re just gonna have to stick your neck out to get it. Don’t be left ruing the fact that you didn’t try.

No, I completely understand. You're right. I tried to distance myself and reread this thread from an outsider perspective. I don't want to leave, I want him to be nice, but I need to get a grip and accept reality. He's talking about killing himself now so it's all a mess. I've spoken to a wonderful kind person on a helpline and they've said he'd be offered help if he needed it from mental health services.

I really want to try to help myself. I promise I'll start tomorrow. I plan to get outside. I truly promise I'll do it. I'll take it from there but I promise I'll try. I've decided if I can't do it by phone by the end of this week (ask for refuge space and/or support to leave), I'll email them. He'll be ok, surely? He has a career, friends, family. He might be upset or angry but he won't be alone.

You're all complete strangers with your own awful problems to deal with. And you still took time (lots of it) to try to help me. It's something that's really really humbled me. I know you've said not to do it for you but I don't want to let people down. You've helped me so much and deserve a bit of effort from me in return. If nothing else I want to use it to motivate myself. I promise I'll try to overcome my fears.

Talking about killing himself.... yes, abusers do that when they feel their grip slipping. He may find he has a previously undiagnosed serious heart condition which strangely allows him to do everyrthing he wants to do and nothing he doesn't! Or some sort of cancer which won't restrict him...….

They do this. It's to get you back safely under the thumb, unquestioning, obedient, docile, frightened.

Plantlife, he is behaving just like an abuser. It's as if they have a script to read from:

"ideas of how to get your victim back in their box:
threaten suicide
find a serious illness - cancer, heart, brain - something that doesn't show and will allow you to be up and about but also will enable you to refuse to do all those things you hate doing. Milk it, remind your victim how ill you are whenever they want you to do something
be extra loving, buy presents, flowers, cook dinner if you can, take the bins out without complaining. Don't worry, you'll only have to do this once in a while
if all else fails get angry, frighten you victim so they remember their place

and so on.....

@Plantlife, every abuser ever has pulled the ‘I’ll kill myself’ line. Every. Single. One.

Let’s leave aside the tedious predictability of the ‘I’ll kill myself if you leave’ line and look at it this way. He works, he has friends, but he comes home to you at night and abuses you. Does that sound like a happy man? Does a person who is truly happy go home and abuse their partner? Would he not feel happier if he came home and sat by himself watching the box, no abusing, nobody at home he feels so much animosity towards that he feels compelled to abuse them?

You’d be doing him a favour quite frankly, because if he feels so miserable around you that he abuses you then you’d both be way better off as far away from each other as possible.

Let’s look at it another way. If he’s so happy now that the thought of losing you would drive him to suicide, doesn’t that tell you something about him? This is what he thinks is being happy and content, which is nowhere near what you would call happy and content, so you’re so badly mismatched that you’d be doing both of you a favour by leaving. If he’s happy the way things are then he’ll never feel any need to change, which if you stay is incredibly bad news for you, unless of course you want to sacrifice yourself for the sake of him being perfectly happy and content to abuse you and destroy you.

You can flip it any way you like, but the only sensible solution for both of you is you getting out of there. Be the bigger person, do the thing that will ultimately make you both happier. He won’t kill himself, they never do, more’s the pity. If I had a quid for every woman who has been told their partner has threatened to kill themself if they leave, but is still alive and well, and more than likely abusing someone else several years down the line I’d be rich enough to just buy you a house wherever you fancied, along with every other woman who’d been spun the ‘I’ll kill myself if you leave’ line.

I'm about to have a wash before going outside. I thought just taking the bins out and going to the local shop is a start? I know it's pathetic. I feel a bit sick and shaky about leaving the flat. I'll make myself do it. Hoping two or three days in a row will give me confidence to then go through with the risk assessment.

I know (although I hate to admit it) he's an abuser. But it was out of the blue yesterday, the suicidal stuff from him. He'd left (for his week away) on good terms with me. No argument, hugs. I hadn't said anything about leaving him. Just suddenly he messaged me saying he was suicidal, and then told me I'm not to contact him until the end of the week. He too down to talk to me. The only thing I suppose is the weekend before last when things were bad. I talked about leaving but only after he said he hated being with me.

I think he's genuinely depressed but I know I have to save myself and leave.

I hate to admit this but I think he enjoys being abusive. Sometimes he's sort of smiling when he's been raging violently or ordering me to do something. I think he takes out his stress on me. I know it's not ok. I think he'd be unhappy if I left but I think it's impossible situation as he's unhappy full stop. The only way would be if he got proper help. I wish he would.

That list. I'm worried I could be an abuser? Or at least he could say I was (to police, etc). I've been suicidal. I attempted it when I was a teenager. I wasn't like that when I met him but there's been a couple of occasions when I've told him I feel suicidal. During incidents with him, not to stop him leaving, it was times when he'd been relentless, either physically or verbally including telling me to kill myself (or saying I'm so useless I couldn't even get that right). I cook and clean for him, try to look after him. I'm the one with health problems. I had a cancer scare and was assessed on the two week pathway. I'm meant to have something removed (most likely benign). I can't do it whilst with him. He was drunk and violent after I had my pre-op. And there's the ear thing, me asking him not to shout, not be too loud when it hurts. He says that's controlling. He could say I'm the abuser? Maybe I am. I hope I'm not. I don't want to be a bad person or hurt anyone, but I'm no angel.

I'm going to get going now. It's raining, which weirdly I prefer going out in. I think it's refreshing maybe after being indoors so long.

I'm trying to envisage myself in a refuge or another safe place, trying to prepare myself to do it. I guess it will be like a horribly hard nasty task to ensure but with a light at the end of the tunnel?

It doesn’t matter what anyone else thinks. IF a taking the bins out and going down the shop is a big deal to you then it’s an achievement when you do it. I just had a saxophone lesson. My teacher was running up and down the sax like it was nothing, but when I managed to play a tune fluently using the octave button it was an achievement for me, and like you going out, the more I do it, the better I’ll get at doing it.

Please try not to tell him you want to leave, or that you’re planning to leave. The reason he came out with all the suicide stuff is because he knows it’s in your mind, and he wants to make you feel worried and guilty so you won’t try. It’s incredibly obvious and predictable to anyone looking from the outside, especially those of us that have been through similar, but you’re still in the situation so you’re going to have to weigh up whether the evidence suggests we’re right in what we say or not. It’s very easy to see a situation for what it is when you aren’t emotionally invested, and because of that you’re going to have to rely on what other people say to an extent, but you still have all the evidence to make up your own mind.The thing about evidence is that when you look at it you see a pattern, and when you see a pattern you can predict behaviour. You have everything you need to do this, you just need to be able to detach yourself enough to do it.

Always remember, a person is, or should be judged on what they do, not what they say. I could tell you I’m a championship racing car driver, but if you met me you’d immediately realise I’m not, and not only that I’m not but that it couldn’t possibly be true. The same applies to your partner (abuser). He can tell you he loves you all he likes, but if you look at what he does, not what he says, you’ll see that he doesn’t love you, and that the way he acts means that he can’t possibly love you, as people don’t abuse the people they genuinely love.

Why do you believe him when he says he is going to kill himself,
but you don’t believe him when he says he is going to kill you?

I managed to avoid the neighbours! I want to try to go out properly tomorrow. Once I start walking in fresh air I feel so much better. I want to keep walking.

He doesn't want to go to prison (he knows about the rough sex defence though). I get scared he could kill me but that could be anxiety. The first DV place didn't seem concerned, he'd first threatened it years ago and not acted on it. They only seemed worried if recent physical violence. I felt they thought I was exaggerating, that it was me being paranoid. Admittedly others I've spoken to (all anonymously) have taken it more seriously.

They asked if I thought he's capable of following through. I don't know and don't want to damn him unnecessarily. What if it's just meant to scare me? What if subconsciously my fear of homelessness is exaggerating what he does - to access housing? They made me feel like I was doing that. He's been more seriously violent only a few times. I think he was capable those times but it's ages ago.

I'm definitely scared of him regardless and feel like there's a risk. I want to leave. I really do. I have tried to leave. It's always gone wrong. Landlords not accepting benefits, refuge places filled by the time I've called me. I know I need to try harder. I tried to call today but couldn't get through. I'm sticking to my plan of emailing if no joy by the end of the week.

He can be very self destructive. He's walked out after a few of the worse incidents. A few times he's spent the night drinking, one time on the streets, another time he was so drink he wet himself and didn't even realise until he got to a hotel. It's confusing because he's not like a typical abuser. He doesn't beg me to stay. He says he hates me and being with me is ruining his life. Then again I suppose he also says it breaks his heart when we argue and he says I need him. I've realised he's like this anyway so it's not my fault?

It's not at all pathetic, Plant, it's completely the opposite. Did you manage to take teh bins out? Did you feel the cool refreshing rain on your back, on your face?

A major step which calls for celebration!

You are not an abuser. I promise you that asking someone to be a bit quieter due to pain in your ear at loud noises and shouting is not controlling. That your pain was caused by him to start with only adds to the story of him as an abuser.

Ignore what he says - easier said than done, but give it a go,.

He has pretended that he is too down for contact while he's away because he's expecting to have a great time without you. He's not being truthful with you.

It’s not pathetic but you do need to keep going outside.
It’s not depression or stress that makes him vile to you. It’s because that’s who he is.
What he thinks of you is irrelevant.

You need to get out. You can’t avoid surgery or getting well to try and placate him. You really can’t.

I know it's mad to some people but I love being out in the rain. Obviously it's different, and awful, for flood hit areas. I've got an excuse to go out tomorrow. The main bin is heavy so I'll do the recycling tomorrow.

Trying to keep up the momentum before I lose nerve. I feel a bit stronger today but I know I'll waver massively.

The local issue. I guess/hope I'll get a refuge away from here. Were the councils just gatekeeping? A few weeks ago I called several. They all tried to encourage me to go to my local council. I suppose some people might be ok staying in the same area depending on each situation.

I'm leaning towards emailing a link to this thread to the DA support place. I struggle every time I try to verbally explain. I'm too conscious of not downplaying but equally not exaggerating. I don't want the police or that meeting if at all possible. I just want the help to leave/refuge place. No outside involvement. I don't think I'm the highest risk so should be ok. Maybe I should write an email and not send this link? It's hard to start explaining it from the start.

I'll go away now. I feel a bit more focused and positive, thank you so much. I know it might not last but I'll try to keep at it.

Don’t go!!!!!
This is your thread.
Your place.
Be you. Here.
I sometimes like the wind and the rain. I was caught out with big dog today and no coat. It wasn’t horrid at all. Made me feel properly alive and aware of my beautiful surroundings.
Aware I sound like a loon. Not sorry!!

Thank you so much. I've had so much support here, and felt I have a safe place to express fears. Hopefully next time I post I'll have made more progress. It's given me strength, all of you. I hope both Wolfiepups are doing really well and are good friends now. I was worrying again about being alone if I left but you've made me remember about animal shelters and hopefully I can one day help out at one.

I’ve just taken big girl out for a wee.
(Sorry neighbours. In PJs!)
It’s raining gently and the grass is sparkling.
The world can be a wonderful place.
Especially with animals.
I hope you see that one day. X

A few years ago when I was having some serious MH issues I walked the mile to the local shopping centre. Half way there it started thundering. It was absolutely lashing it down. It made me feel so much better. There’s something about walking in the rain when you’re feeling low that brings you back into your own body. It’s like you head stops spinning and for a while you’re right in the moment, feeling all the sensations of the rain falling on your skin. Obviously most of the time I find walking in the pissing rain a total downer, but sometimes when I need re-earthing it’s the most liberating thing.

Imagine just walking to the bus stop or down to the shop, when it’s a normal day and you just need a bottle of milk and a loaf of bread. Imagine the day when having to go out in the rain is a drag, and you’d rather be snuggled up on your settee watching the telly. Imagine the day when going out in the pouring rain is a boring drag. Imagine being that normal.

As for councils, they gatekeep all day long. They won’t just house you in any given town you choose. They will however have a statutory duty under the housing act if you are coming out of a refuge.Depending your category of need they will either assist you to find somewhere to live in the private sector, or if you’re a higher category they’ll let you bid for places. Refuges will have contacts in their local council and they will also have contacts with local floating support services, so you would have help when it was time to move on.

I think you’re putting the cart before the horse though, because to get to any of those points you need to get out first, and you need a supportive place where you can be reintegrated into society. Keep on at the refuges. Have you asked your local council about refuges. They obviously won’t offer you anywhere local but they may be able to put you in touch with someone who can help. At the moment I’m afraid no council will touch you for social housing, so your best avenue is to try to find a refuge.

Please don’t get overly hung up on what you imagine other people are thinking about you. If we all did that we’d never do anything. You just need to be honest and tell him that he’s threatened to kill you and that you’re scared. Also tell them about him threatening to kill himself. I fear one of two things are happening. 1, that you aren’t being honest and that you’re minimising, or 2, that they are taking you seriously but you’ve already got it into your head that they’re not. No refuge will tell you to stop being daft after you’ve just told them your partner has just threatened to kill you, none.
at the end of the day you need to start acting in your own interest, because nobody else can do it for you. your partner certainly won’t. The day when he decides to stop messing around and kills you could be the day he gets back, and if he’s already talking about rough sex defended then you know he’s already planning what he’ll do if or when he does. That would worry me, and it will worry any member of refuge staff if you tell them too.
Like I said in my previous post, dead women can’t speak, so what he says will be all the world hears. I don’t know about you but the thought of that injustice alone would have me doing my all to get out.

I'm sorry if this is too cryptic. I'm being stupid and I guess it's just too close to home feeling. This is completely irrational as I feel sick at the thought of police involvement and/or any other outside person/service taking things out of my control. But I need to ask... If someone who works in this area (DA) suspects or knows of DA with someone not related to their work (so family, friend, neighbour, acquaintance, etc) why would they not raise concerns? I know it's not their job as it's outside of work but it means they don't really care about victims/survivors? Or maybe they're being kind and realise the person needs control and doesn't want it reported. Sorry this is not much sense. I sorry I'm not explaining more, feels too risky, and also I'm aware I'm being extremely irrational. I truly think I can only deal with it and leave on my own control (unless emergency).

Sorry just another question. If a victim/survivor gets help, although it's based on where you live, can you get help from another area (i.e. case worker, etc) if it turns out the local service has someone working there who might know you? I was going to email my local one.