If you've given up work outside the home to be with the kids, are you happy with the decision?

[jeangenie]

Has anyone on here given up work to stay at home with the kids, even though it meant a financial struggle? How do you feel about the decision now?

(am considering this at the moment,trying to make myself hold back until I'm certain, but finding it hard to restrain myself this morning for some reason...)

What attitudes are you disturbed about , enlighten me please ?

Good for you that you can do all these thngs ,have two incomes , have nice furntiure , have 13 weeks holiday a year, both you are your DP.

Some people can't have this ... they choose other ways of life .

I have never said that it is a terrible value to help others , dont judge me on one debate . You dont know me . dont know my past , dont know what I have done with my life and how I have helped others.

I dont think like you, and you dont think like me. We are all different , thats what debate is all about.

I do get annoyed however with commenst like ' who is paying taxes which cover your child's education, your GP, your smear test etc) '.

I have contributed to taxes , I have paid thousands of pounds in childcare when I worked and have no desire to do that again.Oh yes my Dh pays taxes as well and has done for well over 20 yeras so please dont preach about who is paying for what .

I do doubt will work when DS2 is full time at school but that will be my choice .

I would also like to add my contribution to those who have argued that women need to look out for the financial futures more than they currently do.
My ex-husband very unexpectadly had an affair when my youngest was only 9 months old. He couldn't give up the other woman & so we ended up getting divorced. Fortunately, I had continued to work part-time after my children were born & now I am able to support my family. I always made pension contributions, which is just as well because in the new "clean break" divorces I am not be entitled to any of my ex-husbands pension.
Given the high divorce rate, I would suggest that women do need to be more practical about their financial futures.

"I do not and have nog judged others" Yes you have.
Saying that those who do not pay taxes make no contribution to society and only benefit themselves is a shocking judgment and nasty generalisation"Don't argue that you are contributing taxes or that you are doing something that benefits SOCIETY as a whole other than bringing up your kids which is what WOHMs are doing AS WELL as contributing taxes and/ or contributing in other ways. " THAT is a judgement.

'What attitudes are you disturbed about , enlighten me please ?'

I think I've just said that some people seem to find my personal view that we all have a responsibility to contribute to society where we can (other than simply by contributing to our families which both SAHMs and WOHMS and dads do anyway) controversial and insulting. While I can just about understand why not everyone may have that view themselves, I do find it disturbing that this view that should be attacked in quite the way it has. TBH I thought that the idea that we should do our best to help others and not just concern ourselves with what makes us happy as individuals and what makes our family happy was fairly mainstream (it's certainly fairly standard in most of the major religions although I'm not at all religious and common in the education system and the basis for the NHS and the social security system etc). I'm not necessarily talking about you Mummydear I am talking about everyone on this thread who has made unpleasant comments about me as a person etc etc in response to my beliefs and values as I have expressed them many times without criticising others for their beliefs and stating very clearly that I really don't mind if they don't agree with me.

'Good for you that you can do all these thngs ,have two incomes , have nice furntiure , have 13 weeks holiday a year, both you are your DP.'

I'm not asking for your approval or anyone else's. I'm happy with my life but I have worked hard for it and continue to work hard every day of my life for myself, my family and the 100s of students I teach.

'Some people can't have this ... they choose other ways of life .'

No, really? Because if you read through my posts I think you'll find that I've said that quite a few times. I'm actually the one who has said that many SAHMs and possibly the majority are not actually the ones so often represented on Mumsnet who are privileged enough to be able to leave an established career to look after their children etc etc and still live comfortably, they are women and girls who have no choice but to do that for many reasons. I have also said that everyone must make their own choices and do what's right for them MANY MANY times.

'I have never said that it is a terrible value to help others ,'

Did I say you did?

'dont judge me on one debate .'

I haven't or anyone else.

'You dont know me . dont know my past , dont know what I have done with my life and how I have helped others.'

Where have I said or even implied I did?

'I dont think like you, and you dont think like me. We are all different , thats what debate is all about.'

I think you'll find I said that some time ago many times.

'I do get annoyed however with commenst like ' who is paying taxes which cover your child's education, your GP, your smear test etc) '.'

Don't really understand why. I'm happy to acknowledge the debt I owe to other tax payers. I am grateful for taxes and taxpayers, I am grateful for the NHS, free education, lollipop ladies and police. Sometimes it's easy to take this stuff and the people who provide it for granted. As I've said if you feel you've done your bit that's great. Must be a nice feeling. I don't feel that way. But sorry if I've offended you.

'I have contributed to taxes , I have paid thousands of pounds in childcare when I worked and have no desire to do that again.Oh yes my Dh pays taxes as well and has done for well over 20 yeras so please dont preach about who is paying for what .'

Why do you feel you need to justify yourself to me? I've said many times that if you and any other SAHMS are happy with your life-style and your contribution then that's great. I am not preaching.

'I do doubt will work when DS2 is full time at school but that will be my choice .'

I have always respected people's choices. If you read my posts you'll find that I have repeated that many times. I really think you should count the times I've said that everyone must do what's right for them.

One thing that may be worth noting is that my circumstances and beliefs are not as unusual as some of you seem to think. It is natural to gravitate towards and make friends and colleagues who have similar circumstances and views to yourself. Most of my friends and acquaintances are people I went to school and university with and then colleagues from all the schools and colleges I've worked at. Very many of these people have similar views and circumstances to myself. I've already mentioned that every mum in my department is a part-time WOHM, my bf who runs her own business with her dp is also a part-time WOHM etc etc. They all also beleive in making the kinds of contributions I have been talking about.

It makes sense that SAHMs gravitate to people in similar circumstances so that my views may seem unusual. If you (not necessariyl you personally mummydear or anyone else specifically) don't mix with many WOHMs it makes sense that you won't see the many people I do (not just teachers - as I've said my students' parents of whom I've had contact with many 100s over my years of teahcing, friends who are GPs, cleaners, babysitters, child-minders, foster carers, driving instructors, swimming instructors etc) who DO manage to be brilliant parents and brilliant at their jobs.

Although I do know quite a few SAHMs I only know 1 who does nothing for society except bring up her kids which we all do but then she lives in another country where she is expected to bring her school-aged children home for 2 hour lunch breaks each day which would make it difficult to get a job or make other sorts of commitments.

So if I understand B&W correctly she thinks it is important to work and pay taxes OR to have a role that is unpaid to contribute to society.

As far as I can see she accepts that not everyone can have a salaried job fir various reasons (very young children and employers not being family friendly) and she thinks that is understandable.

As far as I can see B&W is not saying anything controversial or am I missing something. It seems to me that B&W is aiming most of comments at parents who choose not to work in a salaried position when their kids are at school preferring to work in the home even when the kids aren't there.

'Saying that those who do not pay taxes make no contribution to society and only benefit themselves is a shocking judgment and nasty generalisation'

I have not said that. Please don't misrepresent my views. Please do me the respect of reading my posts properly.

I've already given you the example of lollipop ladies and those who do voluntary work and so on. READ MY POSTS

Thanks Dros and I'm not even criticising those parents who choose to stay at home when they're kids are in school I'm just saying I wouldn't do it and while they may be doing a grand job of bringin up their kids etc etc they're not doing a huge amount for the rest of us. I'm sure they each and everyone of them are lovely.

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I don't hink I would have your staying power B&W.

This isn't complicated. To say that if you chose to be a full time homemaker when you kids are at school and therefore not earn a salary and pay taxes that you are not making a contribution to society as a whole IS a judgment.

Because I stay at home my dp earns alot more than if I drew a salary. His tax bill is extorionate, and this will be the same for alot of women who chose to stay home, they are paying taxes through their husbands..

I agree with you kitty, I see my family as a unit and even though I stay home dh is contributing. He would not be able to do the work he does and care for our children at the same time. If I worked we would have to pay strangers to look after our children, something which neither of us want. I do feel that I am contributing to society by bringing up my children to hopefully have good values, study and eventually work in a field they enjoy.

B&WC I wouldn't say that your view has been attacked , your view has been debated, some people agree with you some dont.

Your view ,however that SAHM , who children are at school, dont do anything for 'me' I find insulting. But you are entitled to your view.

the SAHM v WOHM issue is fiercely debated and this is one such debate.

I Do feel that the role of mother/parenst is difficult enough nowadays as the extended family close by is non existent, and as parents we are bombarded by so called experts, many of whom dont have children themselves , without us getting hot under the collar about it all.

I respect your view on the matter but dont necessarily agree with it.

Just wanted to say that it isn't neccessarily any easier to work when your children are school age. I've worked all the way through (neccessity not choice) and it's only since my eldest started school that I've felt the slightest twinge of guilt - I can't make it to all the plays and performances they do, can't get to the in-class workshops, can't help with school trips etc. My DD especially seemed to miss that. And it's 100x harder too just to manage the simple logistics of school and nursery/cm and work.

jean - look into tax credits as someone already mentioned. If I could give up work and still have enough money I'd do it like a shot but not if it meant being seriously broke - been short of money too many times and it's miserable. We're not exactly well off now but we get by more or less comfortably - not if I gave up work.

This whole thread just goes to show that woman can (but def shouldnt) feel guilty whatever choices thye make. can u imagine men having the same discussion. Lets stop attacking eachother and congratulate eachother on doing a b hard job well - however it works best for our families.

saadia - "we would have to pay strangers to look after our children,"

I don't pay 'strangers' to look after my children. The only people who have looked after my children apart from family are people that I've met and got to know a little before I entrusted my kids to their care, and who have qualifications and skill some of which if I'm honest are better than mine. I do wish SAHMs would think a little before constantly saying such inflammatory things. I rarely get offended by postings here but that one is so frequent and so hurtful.

I've skimmed through this thread and am impressed by B&WC's posts. However, the question is academic for a lot of us - many families would lose their home if both partners didn't work, either full or part time, so where's the choice? The idea that where you spend your daytime would make a jot of difference to your children is laughable. It's the whole story of how you love them and care for them that matters. Personally I think part time employent suits me best, but when both my kids are in school (in a couple of years time), providing the after school club obliges, I will hopefully be working full time.

And no, we don't have foreign holidays, playstations, a big house, loadsa new clothes etc... we both work to pay the mortgage on a very ordinary 3 bed detached, run two old cars and pay the bills.

If you can afford to give up work to be with the kids, and that's what you want to do, then do it! Only you will know if it suits you or not. Some people love it, some hate it. Personally I like the mix of work and home. And I'm just as good a mum (and DH is just as good a dad) as I would be if I was at home full time. Probably better as I have 'another life' at work. Bt I definitely know people who are at home full time and love it and thrive on it. And vice versa for those who work full time. And guess what? Their kids are just as well adjusted/clever/happy/unhappy/irritating/PITAs as their 'opposites'!

...whoops sorry it's a semi, not a detached. Not that it matters!

I apologise Noelallie I really didn't intend to cause offence or hurt, just didn't think too carefully about wording. I completely understand that most mothers who work - either through choice or need - and use childcare will do everything they can to find the best care possible.

Dh and I both have quite traditional views about kids, we both wanted me to be the primary caregiver, that was our choice and it has its pros and cons. Every choice of this kind has pros and cons. My comment was certainly not intended as a slur on people whose choice might be different.

'To say that if you chose to be a full time homemaker when you kids are at school and therefore not earn a salary and pay taxes that you are not making a contribution to society as a whole IS a judgment.'

If you're not prepared to read and understand my comments then I wonder why you bother to respond to them Kitty.

If you are a SAHM, during the hours that your kids are in school do you do any salaried work that means you pay taxes? During the hours your kids are at school are you doing any other form of work (from working as a dinner-lady to being a guide leader) which helps anyone apart from yourself and your family?

If your answer to the above questions is no then you have effectively proved that you don't do anything (or at least very little) to contribute to society as a whole. That is not a judgement and I'm not criticising you for it that is a fact just as it is a fact that I have blue eyes and I work as a teacher.

If you look after your children and your family (which the majority of mums and indeed dads) do then you are making an enormous contribution to society (as I have said about 100 times) but this is something almost all mums and dads working or not do and as I believe I have proven you don't actually have to stay at home to do it effectively if your kids are at school (though you may chooose to and that is fine) except in some exceptional cases.

If you have paid a million pounds in taxes before becoming a SAHM, if your husband pays 10 billion pounds in taxes every year while you are a SAHM then that is absolutely wonderful. Yippee. But that doesn't alter the fact that while you are a SAHM you are not paying taxes. That's not a criticism, it's not a judgement, it's a fact. It's as pointless getting offended by it as I would be offended it somebody pointed out that I was a woman or I am not a doctor or that I am a hopeless singer.

Yes B&WC all that is true to an extent however, you have not been neutral in your feelings about the importance of paying taxes, so it is only logical that for you those who do not pay taxes are not personally contributing as much as you, who does.
What I am disagreeing with is your views on the value of that particular way of contributing and that you have not found a woman who stays at home when her children are at school.

If you think paying taxes is important , which you have stated to be the case, then you do have an opnion about the value of the contribution of those who do so indirectly through their spouses.

Anyway I think you and i will have to agree to differ. Nothing you can say will show me that you have have a and let life attitude. I have read your posts and on the surface they seem to be conciliatory but actually they are not particularly nice women who chose to stay at home because you say they are not contributiong to society as a whole. It is only your opnion, but in my opinion, it is not a nice one.

Sorry, meant live and let live

I don't think she was saying that Kitty, what she was saying (forgive me if I am wrong , B&W Cat - are you two related, BTW?) is that, if your children are in school and therefore you have between the hours of say 9 and 3 free, and if you choose not to work during those hours - whether it's paid or not, so that includes voluntary work, whether it's 'formal' or not, and if you spend all your that time cleaning the house and cooking dinner and going to the gym (or whatever), then you are not contributing to society, only to your family. And that's fine, but in that situation, parents who work or volunteer are contibuting more. Because they do all these things and work/volunteer as well.

So kick me if I'm wrong.