Mothers ignoring their children

[Fionn]

Have to get this off my chest! It seems that whenever I make the shortest shopping trip I see at least one mother shout/swear at, hit or just ignore their child/children. This morning in M&S a boy who was probably about 3 was trying to get his mother's attention but she was too busy discussing clothes with her friend so ordered him to stay in his pushcahir and gave him a dummy to shut him up. I felt like shouting at her "Listen to your child, it's the most important thing!" I get so depressed by these examples of really bad parenting that I witness virtually every day. Shouldn't there be some sort of compulsory "training" for mothers and fathers with young children that presumably had poor parenting experiences when they were kids themselves so just perpetuate the problem? Aside from the pity you have to feel for any undervalued child the social consequences affect society as a whole; children who aren't made to feel loved and valued are far more likely to turn to drugs/crime and be inadequate parents themselves. I look at some of these mothers who don't even have a smile for their child and want to ask them why they bothered having children in the first place. This is something that really upsets and concerns me. Any thoughts anyone?

LOL Jenny2998 .

Brilliant, and so true

My dd who is 2 had a tantrum this morning when I was getting her ready for nursery. Not the first time by any means! Usually I try to reason with her and find a way of calming her down although it usually means that I sort out the first problem and she decides to through a wobbly about something else.
So this morning I stayed calm. I got my son dressed then asked him to come down stair for breakfast. By the time my dd was in a right state. I ignored her. By the time I had got her breakfast on the table she was smiling again! This is definately going to be my approach next time

Not wanting to start anything off again, but the title of this thread can been taken in a different way - Fionn's original post expressed concern for children whose mothers ignored them when they just wanted to ask something, rather than ignoring tantrums which is quite different, and from the experience of those who've posted here, the only way to deal with a toddler who's got themselves into a mega strop! Just so people who look at the thread don't think Fionn et al were condemning that.

Crunchie, please note that I wasn't commenting about toddlers, but about small babies which is a completely different matter. The makeup came into it because I was looking in vain for some sign that this perfectly turned out mother was at the end of her tether to the extent that she had no alternative but to ignore her baby's cries until she got to the checkout.

Can I ask a question here? Am I the only mother who gets worried about seeing extremely placid toddlers? At the weekend, I was at a child-orientated funday celebration (fairground rides, stalls etc) and saw a number of family groups with toddlers and young children just walking around showing no apparently interest at all in their surroundings. OK what I got was a snapshot of their time - for all I know the toddlers might have been exhausted from a bouncy castle session, and yet, IME, exhaustion still doesn't lead to this type of obedient disinterest. However, I am the first to admit that my two sons are on the active and loud side. Tell me please that there is a good reason for this type of super placid behaviour!

Tigermoth - some kids are just born like this. My sons are both very loud, active, and always enquiring, and investigating things, and Yes, if they are suddenly quiet and disinterested, it's usually because they are very ill. But their two cousins (two separate families) are very docile children. They're not neglected, or brought up very strictly, or anything, they are just like that. (And yes, sometimes I'm just a teensy bit envious!)

Timgermoth/KMG, are the docile/placid kids boys or girls? My ds is much the same as you have described, runs everywhere, I don't think he knows how to walk (lol!) and a real 'stickybeak', into everything. My SIL's children (1 boy/1 girl) are chalk and cheese - the boy carrying on as we've described and the girl a placid little thing, does exactly as told, but I'm sure I'm stereotyping and all girls aren't like that.

No you're not alone ! I know that everyone is different but as mother to a junior Houdini/ budding tri-athlete who hasn't used a buggy since dd was 20 months old, I find it truely amazing that there are so many toddlers and preschoolers who sit slumped in buggies showing no interest in anything around them whether they're at a farm park or down at the river etc. There have been (a few) times when I wished dd was similar but these days I've just accepted that for the forseeable future my clothes will be mail order and happy that I've got a 'spirited' little pickle whose idea of a fun day involves watching a train go by before walking past the diggers on the local building site..

I had an unpleasant few minutes recently at an event when a mother with a toddler in a buggy was sitting in a very adult situation for over half an hour chatting to her companion and just going 'shush, shut up' every time he tried to get her attention. Sure, the child was attention seeking but totally understandably as she had brought NOTHING to look at/play with and yet knew they would be sitting for some time. Grrr ! Fortunately I'd got some bits in my bag (what mother doesn't ??)

SML don't worry I realsied you were talking about babies, not toddlers and that this thread was about ignoring kids when they are simply asking questions or whatever. I know ignoring tantrums are a way of dealing with them, but it just doesn't seem to work for us.

We have decided to move to a much sticter regime as from this w/e. Any sign of a tantrum or strop, that's it, into the bedroom (if we are in) or back to the car if not. I have had enough of them. I find myself doing so much 'her' way to try to avoid a tantrum and not doing what need to do. So far, so good, and I think give it a few weeks and we might get there. I don't want a saint, just a child who understands boundries and knows when I mean no.

My dd has always been very placid and shy when in new situations or with new people. She is 22 months old and is slowly coming out of it, but if I took her to playgroup she would simply pat my knee the whole time or put her head on my lap. She would watch the other children every now and then but apparently had no interest in what they were doing. I have now come to accept that she is just a laid-back kid and also quite shy. I will do what I can to encourage her to take an interest, but am keen not to push the issue.

To be honest, I used to think mine was the only one as everyone else's kids seem so active and social, I'm glad to hear that she is not!

Crunchie - sorry. BTW, I've used "Back to the car immediately" and found it very effective, especially when I can leave them with my dh and return to the supermarket.

Tigermoth - we live in a predominantly Asian area, and I have noticed on more than one occasion how good the Asian children are, sitting next to their parents in the doctor's waiting room without any toys or distraction, while my children have to be restrained from demolishing the building. I thought it was a cultural thing, ie that their parents expect a different standard of behaviour from them, but maybe it isn't.
My mother looked at my children once (they were lying on the floor in a cafe, but not in anyone's way, while I fed the baby) and said, "French children are so much better behaved" which annoyed me a lot!

Touche Batters ! Just put my extrememly tired and lethargic dd to bed following manic play session.. I guess like many of the comments on this thread show, I shouldn't make assumptions about individual situations that I only have a snap-shot of.

Speaking of snap-shots of people, just thought I'd add something.... I was in a shopping centre this afternoon, pushing ds around in a shopping trolley. He was being very good, just sitting there looking around at things while I did my shopping. A woman was in the same section as me with a couple of young children, and I could hear her saying to them (loudly) "Don't touch anything! Put it back! Why do you two always have to be so naughty?" I caught sight of them and didn't think they were being very naughty, but then the little girl screamed when her mother took a toy away from her. Anyway the woman pointed at my ds and said "See that little boy sitting there quietly? Why can't you two be like that?" I thought of this thread when half an hour later, ds was throwing a fit because I didn't let him have a ride on the Barney car. From then on, he proceeded to whine and scream so I thought it was best to leave (luckily I'd finished my shopping). If that woman had've seen him half an hour later, she would have realised that he was just as capable of being as "naughty" as her kids. I'll remember that next time I see a child sitting there like an angel - I used to see these quiet little kids sometimes and wish ds was like that. In reality, he can be like that - sometimes!!!

My dd would be good as gold all day and then play up just when I had an NCT coffee morning she would always kick off and scream just when all the other babies were behaving like angels ! As soon as we'd left she would start laughing again and be good as gold the rest of the day !

Further to SML's comments about cultural differences, we are good friends with several French couples all of whom insist that the phrase "terrible twos" doesn't exist in French (similarly "bedtime" is met with puzzled incomprehension by the Italian faction in our family). At the risk of sparking another smack/not debate our friends claim that parents are very firm with babies of 9m plus, and will smack hard at that age, so by the age of 2y the little darlings behave pretty well!

Sorry, I should have explained, we are very anti-smacking and said friends find this "traditional" method quite horrible too. They told us about the smacking when other (childless) friends commented on how well-behaved French children seemed to be compared to British kids. They were trying to show that there was a "price" for such angelic behaviour, and put up with endless snide comments about how "British" their 2 are when they go back to France (relatives are a universal problem!)

It is strange though that hitting older children is rather frowned upon in France(mind you, that could be because people assume the parents couldn't have done the job properly when the kids were babies).

I have relatives in France and Belgium with kids between a few days old to 7 yo... and whilst the "terrible twos" term does not exist... their kids can be terrible and very unruly. Also smacking is fairly common but IME not in an abusive manner and I certainly see as many kids being spanked in this country. But I have never seen a baby spanked (just not witnessed it).
I am going to spend a long WE with them on Friday... so I'll report back.... I'll be surrounded with toddlers !

Pupuce, yes, do report back.

Just for the record, and not that I'm pro-smacking tinies, it would be interesting to know how these parents smack their offspring, whether they give them warnings, if they shout as much as smack, for what misdemeaners they punish etc.

No, they didn't see the smacking as abusive, just frequently used and in situations where even pro-smacking members of the site might find it inappropriate. They told us about Mme's sister who smacked her 10m old dd's hand each time she dropped her (clean) spoon on the floor. Pupuce,don't know if this is a misunderstanding but I think of spanking as "pants down, over the knee, repeated wallops" and friends explained that this was not done.

Well I am sure spanking is done for older (7+ ?)children.... at least I was !!!! But I will ask how do they and their friends discipline their toddlers. I am staying there for 2 nights so I'll observe as well... there will be 3 couples and all their off-springs... a small sample.

My son's girlfriend is French and doesn't think French children are any better behaved than British children. Her own mother is a nanny and has looked after some truly horrible children in her time, including ones that hit and kick her!!