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Original poster

Why are we the only country who CAN NOT be patriotic or express their opinions?????

244 replies

EvesMama · 08/06/2006 08:44

where i live there is uproaor about a local pub daring to display the england flag across the front/top of its building...told to take them out of charity shop windows etc..now on t.v this morning..some scottish people are filmed asying they HATE English and will be supporting trinidad and tobago in world cup...????

we cant so much as think anything like that..and now this close to home?, were both part of britain FGS

if that was and english guy/gal saying that ther'would be a whole heap of trouble?

again where i am from..crime in the surrounding towns is high and statistics show that a high % is caused by people our country have given asylum too, who we allow to live in our country who receive help from US and if anyone dare say they think it is unfair, we are racist?

i just cant get my head round it?
the world is going mad.

expecting some 'good' replys on this, but im sorry i just think some people take the P out of us because they know it'll be us in botherSad

OP posts:
motherinferior · 08/06/2006 18:43

Er...spiteful and misguided?

I too would like to know how you can assume someone's citizenship status from their name. Presumably you're making an assumption about Foreign Names?

Heathcliffscathy · 08/06/2006 18:44

evesmama, not a leg to stand on i'm afraid.

misguided, suspect and totally negates any whiff of reasonable debate in your initial post when you link a question about why supposedly can't fly george crosses with made up drivel about asylum seekers.

perhaps you should start another thread without that bit in it and then you might find you get less of a flaming.

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 18:45

If you mean your question about why the english are not "allowed" to be patriotic, I have answered: for one thing they are in most places (haven't heard of any flag disputes where my family live), and for another if there is a problem it's because people who want to wave flags tend to also be the type of person who makes spurious comments about assylum seekers and other immigrants, or the type of person who harbours more dangerous racist opinions. Please note, by the way, that even though I think you made a racist assumption, that does not mean I think you are a racist.

Anyway I do agree that the some of the scots' opinions of the english are abhorrent though. But I don't think anyone thinks those opinions are "OK". they are on telly because it's the world cup and it's "news". if there was a racist riot there'd probably be people on telly going on about how they hate black people/asians/whatever.

Blandmum · 08/06/2006 18:45

MI, MIL's originl name was something very long, and unpronounable, and Polish. And she was born in Bombay to an English Father and a Canadian Mother. So we never make any assumptions in this house Smile

motherinferior · 08/06/2006 18:47

I personally don't hold with pronounceable or spellable names. Seems a bit unnatural.

Not sure the Inferiorettes will thank me for their Bengali-Swedish hybrid surname in future years, though.

Blandmum · 08/06/2006 18:51

You mean that your name isn't really 'Inferior'? Shock You old imposter, you!

Am I remembering correctly that you kept your name? Are your kids hypenated? I kept mine and gave the kids my sirname as a given name. My mother thought i was 'being difficult' LOL!

motherinferior · 08/06/2006 18:54

They have two, non hyphenated for various reasons of mine not all of them good or even sane....it's murder. You have to spell them both out. If I'm feeling particularly sadistic I insist on my umlaut too.

flutterbee · 08/06/2006 18:56

OK Well where does one start with such a long and slightly tedious thread.!

Let me start by asking, how many of you have been to watch England play because I have many a time.

It seems to me that all of you seem to think that it is only English fans that chant xenphobic chants and drink and act violently. Well you are wrong most national teams in particular the larger national teams (Germany, France, Spain etc) behave the exact same way as English fans do.

We have a reputation of being thugs because of the idiots of the 80's who only went to matches to start fights they were not fans, now a days we have about the same number of idiots going looking for a fight as all the other countries.

Watching sky sports news the other day they were hanging all the flags out in Munich and the only one missing was the English flag Shock the reporter was asking the German public what they thought several lauged and one even had the cheek to say that it was being hung in the toilets. You see it works both ways.

I shall be hanging my flag out with pride cheering the boys on and my husband shall have his Ghana flag out and his Ghana shirt on (although the flags shall be in the garden, not on display of the public road) I would if DH would let me get a flag for the car.

In responce to why people have flags it is to show who you support in the world cup, what should we ban next football shirts both international and home league.

This whole thread is ridiculas imo and I do think that although the op has a point about the flags I think that the rest of the post really is uncalled for and in itsself racist.

kalex · 08/06/2006 19:02

Well I have read the opening post and then the first 50.

And I will respond,

  1. Why are "WE" the only country, Sorry but I live in Scotland, are we no longer part of mumsnet.
  1. "Scotland are not supporting us" - ah boohoo - neither is France - and they hadn't qualified they wouldn't be supporting England either!

And I am not even going into the asylum thing Sad

zippitippitoes · 08/06/2006 19:17

but lots of people do follow other countries too, in particular I shall be following Portugal with interest. I will be watching all the games if possible whoever plays

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 19:36

flutterbee, you don't have to have been to the matches to know that a lot of football fans are thugs. I remember there used to be at least one stabbing in our town (which was full of foreigners) every time england played germany.

but yes, other countries have their problems too and many don't seem to feel the collective guilt that the british do. I say that, i haven't actually seen one spanish flag on a house, on a car or in a bar around here (and it is a spanish area). or are spain not in the world cup? (I'm not a great fan of football as you may guess) could it be that the flag waving stuff goes further in england than it does in other countries away from the matches?

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 19:38

kalex - no, but france won't necessarily be rooting for england's opposition no matter who that is.

donnie · 08/06/2006 19:39

hang the flags out proudly I say.

foxinsocks · 08/06/2006 19:39

have you seen some of the pictures from Brazil? they make our efforts look pathetic!

Original poster
EvesMama · 08/06/2006 19:56

my initial post was trying to ask why england seem to be pushed into not having any opinion any more for the fear of upsetting other nations.
we welcome refuges and people from all over the world into our country, they live along side us, so why do we have to change our ways, beliefs and traditions (in some cases mentioned earlier) for our 'guests', people come to our country and came way before any of this p.c uproar was in place, we should be free to live as we wish and not be scared of someone being offended by our every day life.
if i lived abroad, i would not expect a particular country to not wear certain clothes our celerate thier customs because i didnt believe in them.

this was not initially about the 'people' who come here, more so about the way the government/councils etc gag us to keep it p.c

OP posts:
NotQuiteCockney · 08/06/2006 19:58

But nobody is gagging the English, as far as I can see.

Original poster
EvesMama · 08/06/2006 20:01

there are shops/pubs here(where i live) being told to take them down incase they offend other.

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 08/06/2006 20:05

which area are you from?

am astounded that your local paper publishes criminal scales with the names of people recently convicted!

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 20:07

em - I have answered that in several posts.

In essence I think that our beliefs, culture and traditions are not being threatened at all. there are stories of nativity plays being banned because of religious sensitivities, but nativity plays still go on in all my freinds' kids' schools (boringly enough).

As it goes I don't think the pub you mentioned should have been asked to remove their flag, but then flying a huge st george flag on your roof isn't really what I'd call a great british tradition. was it a really really big flag or something?

finally not all non-christian brits are or were ever assylum seekers, btw. lots of them came to britain because they were asked to (doctors etc), and lots were actually born in britain.

ScummyMummy · 08/06/2006 20:09

Spain are in the cup, SP. Notorious under achievers- which is usually explained with reference to the Spanish being passionate supporters of their respective clubs over and above the national side.

I have no problem with flags. Agree with lovely Billy Bragg that the non-racist non-eejittosser English people should reclaim it back from the bigotted tossweevil BNP supporters.

Sad to read nailpolish's passionate post. Reminded me that living in Glasgow, where I had the time of my life at uni, was difficult sometimes. Was it George Bernard Shaw that said "It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him."? (I agree.) I have could adapted that to "It is impossible for an English girl to open her mouth in Scotland without making the majority of Scots she has not won round previously hate or despise her." while I was at college. IME English people were assumed by Scottish people to espouse "we are better than you","we won the war","we rule the waves" type views until they proved otherwise, so the default position was dislike. Obviously there are good reasons behind the default position but I, like joelallie, now feel that perhaps I ate too much humble pie considering that it's not actually my fault I'm English.

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 20:15

now, you see sm, I don't think there are good reasons behind those default positions. it's a nasty national stereotype like any other.

re spain supporters - that makes sense. also that regional identity is generally stronger than national identity here (fanco being part of the cause of that).

Ulysees · 08/06/2006 20:17

Did anyone see on the news that in munich they had every country's flag in the square apart from England? When questioned the government rep laughed!

I was thinking about this lately too, the English hating. I can't stand any sort of pre judging of any race or colour Angry It's so ignorant and immature but it'll go on forever, sadly.

tenalady · 08/06/2006 21:15

Got me magnetic St Georges Flag for my motor from ebay today. Mmmmm, very tasteful and respectfully understated.Grin

tenalady · 08/06/2006 21:16

Probably be pinched tomorrow Sad

zippitippitoes · 08/06/2006 21:17

Tony Blair will be flying the flag over number ten on England match days..so he deosn't feel there is a problem