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Original poster

Why are we the only country who CAN NOT be patriotic or express their opinions?????

244 replies

EvesMama · 08/06/2006 08:44

where i live there is uproaor about a local pub daring to display the england flag across the front/top of its building...told to take them out of charity shop windows etc..now on t.v this morning..some scottish people are filmed asying they HATE English and will be supporting trinidad and tobago in world cup...????

we cant so much as think anything like that..and now this close to home?, were both part of britain FGS

if that was and english guy/gal saying that ther'would be a whole heap of trouble?

again where i am from..crime in the surrounding towns is high and statistics show that a high % is caused by people our country have given asylum too, who we allow to live in our country who receive help from US and if anyone dare say they think it is unfair, we are racist?

i just cant get my head round it?
the world is going mad.

expecting some 'good' replys on this, but im sorry i just think some people take the P out of us because they know it'll be us in botherSad

OP posts:
tiredemma · 08/06/2006 14:21

see NP, i think we can safely agree that some men from each side of the border has some kind of value!!

nailpolish · 08/06/2006 14:21

oh and mosschops, the man across the road from me has an england flag on his roof,
i tried to find a trinidad and tobago one but the shop was sold out..................................................................................................

(joke)

but he really does have a flag, no-one gives a shit though cos hes dead nice

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 14:22

mc - I don't think anti-english racism is ok is it?

but anyway it is the racism you should be offended by, not the advice. suggesting that someone doesn't hand a flag out of their window is hardly the same as telling someone not to wear something that reflects their religious beliefs.

nailpolish · 08/06/2006 14:22

the place

i still have a fondness for a good northern accent

tiredemma · 08/06/2006 14:23

or did she mean THE halifax singing man Howard? hmmm??

foxinsocks · 08/06/2006 14:24

that was my vision! but I doubted he had a rude phone manner but there are plenty at the Halifax who do Grin

nailpolish · 08/06/2006 14:24

his name was Marvin, does anyone know him??????????

alligator · 08/06/2006 14:25

But it happens the other way round too MC I wouldnt dream of flying the Irish flag outside my house. God knows what would happen if I did but I'm sure it wouldnt be good.

mosschops30 · 08/06/2006 14:25

sp no anti-english racism is not ok but its alive and well in Wales let me assure you.

and our beliefs whether they be religious/moral/sporting/patriotic should be respected whatever they are shouldnt they?

when did the uk stop being a free country

mosschops30 · 08/06/2006 14:26

alligator, I dont think the english have the same hatred for the irish/welsh/scottish as everyone does for them.

Put it this way, if ireland were in the world cup you can guarantee that everyone in the UK including the english would be supporting them, but its doesnt work the other way round

SenoraPostrophe · 08/06/2006 14:26

it didn't, that's what I'm saying

NotQuiteCockney · 08/06/2006 14:29

Goodness knows, in my neighbourhood, there's no shortage of flags, on cars, pubs, whatever. (I saw an SUV with 16 flags fluttering on it the other day!)

I suspect the banning of flags is much like the end of nativity plays - largely mythical.

(And I'm curious to know where there are stats showing asylum seekers are often committing crimes. I'm willing to believe they're often victims ...)

nailpolish · 08/06/2006 14:30

but as someone else said mosschops its all buried in history

some people still hang on to the past

english are not popular because of the mistreatment waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in the mists of time

but english people think they are the dogs bollocks because of other things that happened in history, like the war

its a 2 sided coin, you can choose which side you want the coin up, depending where you are from and how brainwashed you are, maybe ?

NotQuiteCockney · 08/06/2006 14:32

I agree with NP (including her "lively" statement earlier, frankly).

I don't understand how people can be proud of WWII victories, etc etc etc, without being ashamed of colonisation, slavery, and so on.

(Personally, I don't generally feel proud or ashamed about things I didn't have anything to do with.)

Fimbo · 08/06/2006 14:32

As a Scot living in England - I do not have a hatred for the English nor does my dh. My dd (nearly 8) is fiercely proud of the fact she was born in Scotland but a few years ago would have denied having anything to do with Scotland and would have cried her eyes out if anyone had called her Scottish. My ds was born in England and will neither be wearing a Scottish football strip or an English one as I hate all football attire.

HarpsichordCarrier · 08/06/2006 14:34

It's possible, isn't it, that the majority of people flying flags are wishing to express their support of their national team to win an international football tournament.
to impute onto them fervent patriotism, jingoism, superiority or violent tendencies is just plain old ugly prejudice, frankly.
with a big helping of snobbery on the side.

mosschops30 · 08/06/2006 14:35

I'm not proud to be english because of any war, or think I'm better than any other person from another counrty.
I am just proud of my parents, where I was bought up and the history of that, no some war that happened oooodles of years ago

alligator · 08/06/2006 14:38

Its all in the history like NP says and that history is still very recent in lots of peoples minds same as WWII. My grandad remembers the Black n tans and all that. It doesnt bother me or my family much tho. Hell my mum was up there at the Albert Hall waving her UJ flag with the rest of them last time she came over. When in rome and all that Grin

nailpolish · 08/06/2006 14:40

my dad was a bully, he is unbelievably racist, sexist, everything, xenophobic, you name it

i thought this was normal (!) when i was very small

the only time i saw my dad cry was when flower of scotland was on at the rugby

mum quietly took me aside when i was slightly older and told me all this was wrong, everyone is equal, treat everyone with a smile and a fondness, i was so ashamed that i had let dad brainwash me like that (but it had been from birth)

god, i was so ashamed! i now pity dad when he winds himself up at ridiculous things like football

Iklboo · 08/06/2006 14:43

As far as I know, no-one in my family mistreated anyone or had anything to do with it. I come from a long line of miners, mill-workers etc.
The English did not win the war. Britain and her allies did. Tens of thousands of Scots, Irish & Welshmen lost their lives to - as well as those from the allied nations.
Blind jingoism annoys me as much (I think) as it would a non-English person.
We can't change the past, and we can't apologise for something WE had no control over - we can only strive to make sure that it never happens again.

NotQuiteCockney · 08/06/2006 14:44

I'm sure you're right, HC, that most people with flags are just waving them to support the team.

But they still make me uneasy.

I was very pleased, moving here, to almost never see flags. It's depressing to see them all over now.

JessaJam · 08/06/2006 14:48

Haven't read whole thread but Billy Bragg was on Sky news a few weeks ago on this very issue - that it is a shame that being proud of your country has been hijacked by racist elements...to the extent that arguments about "we can't even fly our flag" are turned into "we can't ven fly our flag cos it might upset all those damn immigrants/asylum seekers etc etc" in party polictical doorstepping etc etc. He wanted to "take it back" and reclaim it (bit like homosexuals turning the word 'queer' into their own phrase rather than an insult...)

Yes it is a shame that whenever I see an england flag ( not so much at the moment cos it is world cup so they are everywhere) my immediate thought is cynical and suspicious.

Football does tend to turn a lot of normally reasonable people into total idiots.

mosschops30 · 08/06/2006 14:48

I wanted the union jack on the top of my mini (so I could be like Rea in butterflies Wink) but knew it wouldnt last for 10 minutes in wales so i settled for a panoramic sunroof Grin

might invest in a flag though, if dh lets me

JessaJam · 08/06/2006 14:50

FWIW I don't think the flags should be banned on any grounds apart from where they cause a genuine safety hazard ( and I don't mean over-reactions, I mean real ones, like if someone had a flag over their windscreen!!!)

HarpsichordCarrier · 08/06/2006 14:54

I am sorry they make you feel uneasy NQC. I agree, you hardly ever see them at any other time.
it's just a summer thing, a media thing, a marketing thing. It'll be over before you know it.
FWIW I agree with Billy Bragg that it IS something worth reclaiming. (he's not alone in this, either. New Albion and all that.)