Why are we the only country who CAN NOT be patriotic or express their opinions?????

[EvesMama]

where i live there is uproaor about a local pub daring to display the england flag across the front/top of its building...told to take them out of charity shop windows etc..now on t.v this morning..some scottish people are filmed asying they HATE English and will be supporting trinidad and tobago in world cup...????

we cant so much as think anything like that..and now this close to home?, were both part of britain FGS

if that was and english guy/gal saying that ther'would be a whole heap of trouble?

again where i am from..crime in the surrounding towns is high and statistics show that a high % is caused by people our country have given asylum too, who we allow to live in our country who receive help from US and if anyone dare say they think it is unfair, we are racist?

i just cant get my head round it?
the world is going mad.

expecting some 'good' replys on this, but im sorry i just think some people take the P out of us because they know it'll be us in bother

I put my flag up on the house yesterday and I've got one on my car. I want to support my country's football team in a healthy, fun competition. If any racist arseholes think they can steal my flag from me, then they're wrong. the only way to stop it being seen as a racist symbol is to use it. Billy Bragg on an anti-BNP rally said he was appalled by the BNP's use of the Union flag. Said he wished they (the antis) had taken flags with them too - that way it takes the power out of the BNP. For the queen's golden jubilee, I went to a street party in south london, where I was staying with a friend. she wouldn't let me put up union flag bunting "because it might upset the neighbours". FFS it was a completely cosmopolitan street, everyone celebrating something British (whether they were British nationals or not) and so surely the British flag should be flown? I don't know anywere else in the world where this would happen. I felt not flying the flag was insulting to those non-white British people in the street, who are every bit as British as my white friends are, but she felt somehow they'd be offended ???? Time to be able to be patriotic and stop the racist element hijacking the flag. Rant over. ps any scots upset by the St George's flag will get their own back when scotland qualify for the world cup and england don't. could be a long wait though tee hee

I put my flag up on the house yesterday and I've got one on my car. I want to support my country's football team in a healthy, fun competition. If any racist arseholes think they can steal my flag from me, then they're wrong. the only way to stop it being seen as a racist symbol is to use it. Billy Bragg on an anti-BNP rally said he was appalled by the BNP's use of the Union flag. Said he wished they (the antis) had taken flags with them too - that way it takes the power out of the BNP. For the queen's golden jubilee, I went to a street party in south london, where I was staying with a friend. she wouldn't let me put up union flag bunting "because it might upset the neighbours". FFS it was a completely cosmopolitan street, everyone celebrating something British (whether they were British nationals or not) and so surely the British flag should be flown? I don't know anywere else in the world where this would happen. I felt not flying the flag was insulting to those non-white British people in the street, who are every bit as British as my white friends are, but she felt somehow they'd be offended ???? Time to be able to be patriotic and stop the racist element hijacking the flag. Rant over. ps any scots upset by the St George's flag will get their own back when scotland qualify for the world cup and england don't. could be a long wait though tee hee

That's the other thing that puzzles me - how is flying a flag supporting the team again? Do the squad drive round the country inspecting our window displays and gaining satisfaction from the? If we don't put up enough flags, will the team get so demoralised they'll lose? Are profits from the sale of car flags going to sports-related charities (or indeed any charity)?
Or are we putting out flags so random passersby know that people in our house care about the football?
I know its a 'bit of fun', but am genuinely interested to know if there's a point.

MrsB. good point.

thats like saying how does god know you wear a cross, or allah know you wear muslim dress (sorry dont know the names for them all) its not whether people know you are doing it its a sign of alleigence (sp) and respect

Ah, but God knows if you're wearing a cross / Allah knows if you're wearing a hijab because if you believe strongly enough to wear one then you believe that God knows everything.

I knew the England team were widely revered, but I'm not yet convinced they're omniscient

most footbally types that are scottish hate the england team - becuase of historical reasons.

this is reciprocated with english footbally types as a generalisation.

nowt wrong with flying the flag of patriotism at particular times - esp the world cup. and may i say some brave bastard is displaying the swedish flag on our estate!

thats by the by - the most important thing is those sad fuckers who then keep them up all year long. becuase its tacky. but lets face it - around times like this ( world cup) tackyness is allowed.

also i think there needs to be a point made about racism.

two points

1. any council telling someone to take down the english flag is run by fuckwits. you vote them in - vote them out. this causes unease and sparks more racist trouble than leaving alone. the decision you will find is not made by BME councillors but white middle class fuckwits. who think they know best and are trying to be PC but fucking it up.

2. theres a difference between hating a football team and hating a nation.

so i personally dont know if scotland are even in the world cup as they are so rubbish - but if they are and say they are playing iraq, i will be egging on iraq. this does not mean i hate all scottish people.

I was going to give the flag a miss, and just shout very loudly at the tv - but I'm now going to buy one .

I'm not a violent alcoholic, racist, hooligan, but I do want England to win the world cup.

And I am conscious of our shortcomings in the past (and indeed, the present!), but I still think we have a lot to be proud of.

I don't think that I'm better than anyone else, but I think I'm as good. I certainly would not try to impose my views on others, but equally, I would expect them to respect mine.

And somewhere amongst this lot, we have to retain a sense of humour!!!!!

You could get an England flag and write 'sorry about the Empire and Iraq' along the bottom.

And by the way, for those of you fed-up of listening about Wayne's foot, there is an off switch on most devices

im so sorry SenoraPostrophe , but your posts suggest you are speaking to an imbocile with no brains or is below you.

the local evening gazette has a scales of justice colum in whihc it lists that days sentences..i have already said that i am assuming thier nationality because of theuir name so that may not be grounds to judge, however, i did say i 'know' information in other ways, i am sorry if you imagine me as being a peice of lying scum that you wouldnt pass the time of day with..but i suggest if all you want to do is be a nasty judgmental person, you start your own thread for your own select few.
i never said asylum seekers stop us displaying the english flag, please re read and try to understand instead of jumping to the wrong conclusion every time.

LOL at custardo egging on iraq

and no we are not in the world cup THANK THE LORD

i am scottish and proud of it. However when asked may nationality i say that i am british. On equal ops forms that you are forever filling in i put that i am british. ihave a british passport. It is the media that incites the alleged hatred between the two countries. And just to throw fire into the ring. King James VI of scotland united the scottish abd english throne on the death of Eliizabeth 1.

I don't actually think this is really about the flag. I remember a few years ago when people started displaying them I felt, behind the polite middle-class guilt, a little bit secretly pleased. Most people who consider themselves educated and intelligent have a default setting of guilt about being English and only feel they can get away with being English by constantly denigrating the country, the weather, the food, the people and telling everyone how much nicer just about anywhere else is I was at uni in Cardiff and felt that my very presence was an affront to any native folks. I remember being told that in no uncertain terms in a Welsh studies tutorial...nice...But did I blame them for being nasty racist bigots...no I didn't, I assumed in a shamefaced way that of course they were right and the sheer fact of my background and upbringing gave them the automatic right to give me a verbal going-over... I should have stood up and told them what I now know which is that I'm English, neither proud or ashamed as I'm neither proud or ashamed of being ridiculously tall or of not liking eggs!!! I can't be held accountable for the things that my forefathers may or may not have done. I like living in England and I do think that fundamentally it's a good place to live. And when we are playing in an international competition I would like to be able to support the English team without feeling obliged to don sackcloth and ashes.

I don't doubt that it's a bit overdone and personally I have heard just enough about Rooney's poxy metatarsal to last me several lifetimes .....but it'll all be over soon enought I'm sure.

I love all the flags, I also love football..and felt gutted for Cisse ... you don't have to hate other countries/teams just because you support your own country/team

EM, I'm pretty sure people's surnames don't indicate whether they're asylum seekers or not. They don't indicate much, other than (maybe) what surname their dad had.

And I'm afraid SP isn't the only one unimpressed by the "I have other information that I can't share with you" argument. What with it not being an argument at all.

gomez wrote this
"As a Scot living in Scotland who is not rascist/zenophobic/rude/disparaging about England and or the English as a race I find I am driven to absolute rage by the English media and there completely biased commentary and overall obsession with the English football team"

I have to say i agree with her. As a scot, i have no hatred or dislike of England or it's people. However, it is annoying when its headline news about wayne Rooney's foot, and what the hotel looks like and how many pillows the team will have on their bed, when there are more important and worrying things going on in the world. Yes, we get Scottish news, but only after BBC news at 6, 10 etc. I also happen to believe that if Scotland/Wales/Ireland were in the WC and England wasn't, then there wouldn't be the hype surrounding it.
As for Scots not supporting England, well its not our team is it? I wouldn't expect a someone from Wales/Ireland/England to support Scotland. And as for supporting Trinidad and Tobago - Jason SCOTLAND plays for them, and this time round that's our only Scottish connection in the WC.
We used to live in England, and believe me i have been called some pretty hurtful names from drunken Englishmen, and someone said on here (can't remember who) that it can be quite daunting being faced by a group of flag waving English fans, well yes it can be, especially with a Scots accent. however i'm sure many people will be daunted by being faced by a group of kilt wearing Tartan Army supporters.
I'm from an area of scotland which is as close to England as you can get, and i'm very proud of being scottish, jut like i'd expect any England fan to be proud of being English.
Right i've waffled enough rubbish i think

nqc, you said argument not me..i was trying to say my feelings were not just based upon hot air, but i was forced to try nd explain by SP, i do not pretend i am secret agent of some kind, i just know what i know, and feel what i feel..i wasnt asking anyone to be impressed nor was i inciting and argument, i knew it would be a good debate, but didnt expect my credibilty to be brought up for questioning..my question was my question..nothing hiden or sinister

I've also got fed up with the endless Rooney foot saga and I'm sure most other football fans have too, but that is the media for you endless speculation and misjudgement of what actually constitutes news.

and i also said twice that i may have been wrong in thinking those names were that of refugees..i said it twice now

EM - I think it might have been me saying "to the extent that arguments about "we can't even fly our flag" are turned into "we can't ven fly our flag cos it might upset all those damn immigrants/asylum seekers etc etc"

that you're referring to when you say
"please re read and try to understand instead of jumping to the wrong conclusion every time. "

If this is the case, please read the next 6 words I typed after that phrase, which were:

"in party polictical doorstepping etc etc."

I didn't mean you, at all, I was referring to political candidates and campaigners ( BNP usually) who doorstep during elections and tunr peoples frustration at being unable to show aptriotism into a racial issue.

Also have to say, I know several long term residents of the UK who have very 'foreign' sounding surnames.

sorry EM my last sentence got posted before your last post!!

Hmm, in your OP, you said: "crime in the surrounding towns is high and statistics show that a high % is caused by people our country have given asylum too, who we allow to live in our country who receive help from US and if anyone dare say they think it is unfair, we are racist?"

Statistics aren't the same thing as "me guessing whether someone is an asylum seeker based on their surname". I'm just saying.

no need to patronise me evesmama. my local paper really does not have such a list. but yes I do think you are lying when you say that you know which of the people on the list are assylum seekers, and even if you do know that, have you really sat down and worked out the % of assylum seekers who commit crimes compared with the population as a whole? Because that is what "statistics show a high %..." suggests.

But like I say, that's not the argument. the argument is that whatever stats you have dreamed up, it has absolutely naff all to do with waving st georges flags in the name of football, and nothing to do with whether or not british people can be patriotic.

"You could get an England flag and write 'sorry about the Empire and Iraq' along the bottom."
lol Kathy I might just do that.
actually, seriously, without getting all pop psychology I think the flag waving stuff is pretty transparently a tribal thing. Wearing colours in battle etc. It is a pretty universal human trait to want to be part of a recognised grouping. It makes us feel safe and powerful on a fundamental level. And there is such a thing as a home advantage of course - to be in the presence of supporters helps a team/player to a certain extenet. So - if you can't be in the stadium - a psychological boost and/or hindrance to know that there are Expectations weighing on you and the pride of a nation riding on your performance.