Why are we the only country who CAN NOT be patriotic or express their opinions?????

[EvesMama]

where i live there is uproaor about a local pub daring to display the england flag across the front/top of its building...told to take them out of charity shop windows etc..now on t.v this morning..some scottish people are filmed asying they HATE English and will be supporting trinidad and tobago in world cup...????

we cant so much as think anything like that..and now this close to home?, were both part of britain FGS

if that was and english guy/gal saying that ther'would be a whole heap of trouble?

again where i am from..crime in the surrounding towns is high and statistics show that a high % is caused by people our country have given asylum too, who we allow to live in our country who receive help from US and if anyone dare say they think it is unfair, we are racist?

i just cant get my head round it?
the world is going mad.

expecting some 'good' replys on this, but im sorry i just think some people take the P out of us because they know it'll be us in bother

this wasnt about the war or about blame..it was about freedom of speech and expression for all not a selected few..dont want to cause a problematic thread on war

yes, Eire was not one of the Allied nations, though as you say many Irish soldiers did fight in many regiments.

The news equivalent of a bar of galaxy Caligula!

It is so difficult to get across how infuriating the media are with respect to the English football team - and it is a real shame as people transfer their anger to the team as they are the focal point of the drivel.

I don't see anything to admire in the England football team, and don't really think they are representative of the English people (thank goodness!) so I find all this flag-waving rather irrelevant.
And for anybody who hasn't already heard:
THIS DEPT OF TRANSPORT INITIATIVE HAS BEEN RE-LAUNCHED, MAY & JUNE 2006.

Information Release.

Due to the nature of the quality of driving in England the Department of Transport has now devised a new scheme in order to identify poor drivers and give good drivers the opportunity to recognise them whilst driving.

For this reason as from the middle of May 2006 those drivers who are found to be driving badly which includes:
-overtaking in dangerous places;
-hovering within one inch of the car in front;
-stopping sharply;
-speeding in residential areas;
-generally being an arsehole
-pulling out without indication;
-performing U turns inappropriately in busy highstreets;
-under taking on motorways and
-taking up more than one lane in multi lane roads,

These drivers will be issued with flags, white with a red cross, signifying their inability to drive properly. These flags must be clipped to a door of the car and be visible to all other drivers and pedestrians. Those drivers who have shown particularly poor driving skills will have to display a flag on each side of the car to indicate their greater lack of skill and general lower intelligence mindset to the general public.

Please circulate this to as many other motorists as you can so that drivers and pedestrians will be aware of the meaning of these flags.

Department of Transport.

ah, R4
I spent ten happy minutes listening to 'news' of a new production of Tosca at the ROH on the way to work this morning. The correspondent described it as 'the Marmite of operas' and I hooted with laughter.
The chap in the car behind me must have thought I was a loon.

EvesMama - do those notice boards etc really show the immigration status of people committing crimes? Is this information available on the web anywhere? I'd love to see it - do you have a link?
Or is it just there's a preponderance of names that are non-English?

FGS... it's fun!!! This is England!!! I'm English!! I have my flag but as the area i'm living in is unfortunately very snobby, i won't be flying it! I shall instead be wrapped up in it whilst screaming and jumping around in front of the tele throughout the entire World Cup!!
I love seeing cars with flags on and houses with flags dangling out of windows! With all the shite going on in the world, i see it as a bit of escapism and as for the Scots not supporting us... who the hell cares! It's just sour grapes that they didn't qualify!!

My dh is Irish and he will be cheering England on. The only time he doesn't is if Ireland are in the same competition.

"3 lions on a shirt...
Jules Rimet still gleaming..."

(scuttles off before i'm lynched....)

Harpsi - the problem with what some of us see as a clear difference between flying a flag in support of Waynes bloody foot and general cheerful patriotism is that many people do see it as some ckind of continuum of the empire, the war, their general fear of asylum seekers and need to behave like a mindless belligerent tribe.

I can cope with the cavalcade of white vans flying 99p flags from Tesco, until the occupants start droning "two world wars and one world cup"

fgs, half of them don't even have parents who were born in 1966 - and given their need to have a tea break before tackling the enormous weight of a Red Top, they would have fainted before they had walked 100 yards carrying an army kit bag in WW1 or 2! And yet they feel able to sneer xenophobically at the rest of the world.

mrsbadger - i am privy to such information, which is why i will not go further into that part, but the rest of my 'knowledge' does come from local news and papers in particular the area showing those sentenced for crimes..in this particualr area, yes it is the name suggesting to me not fact and face to face, but other sources have proven that this info is infact correct..im not saying its everywhere, but closer to me in particular, maybe because some areas are more council and available to asylum seekers..i am NOT saying they are commiting all the crime, i am saying there is evidence to show the crime involving refugees is rapidly rising..i was 'trying' to say we are meant to be polite bite our toungue and have a cup of tea when ever someone says something derrogitary about things close to our heart, but others just say what they lke and get away with it...take the guy in papers last few days who had repeatedly stole cars, and was hiding out on someones roof throwing bricks at everyone...they airlifted a kfc to him and even went back as he wanted a bottle of pepsi..not a can?????

..i know there are groups/people who use the football as something it should not be, but this is just my first point, it seems any time we want to show patrisim or speak up for ourselves, we get wronged

you are right womba, but i just cant understand why the scottish people'alledgedy' hate us and would rather support any other football team than england??in the grand sceme of things??why be so in your face about it??..seems its being done to instigate?

Off the top of my head so apologies in advance if ill thought out but...as a Scot who (generally ) lives in Scotland but with a very diverse friendship group, I still feel unsettled when confronted with a sea of English flags in the south east of England (only point of reference - it's the only place I've been in big football competitions). There does seem to be an aggression, an in your face thing which is very different from the same level of flag waving etc at home. There isn't an affection associated with it all - at home in Scotland there is a banter that goes with the whole national team thing (maybe because we're not very good ). Dh (N Irish, supports England when it's soccer) gets cross with the English media doing the English team down etc, the level of analysis and criticism and the level of expectation associated with being in the England squad. It's just not a nice thing, a friendly thing when confronted with it. I really, really hope other nationalities don't feel like that when confronted with a sea of saltires at the rugby - let us know if you do!

sorry gomez I see what you mean
I was trying to asnwer the question as to why WWII plays such a central role in "Englishness" - I was answering about the narrative, not suggesting that this narrative is factually accurate or the Whole Truth. It clearly isn't.
I can't answer for whether or why the War plays a role in Scottishness/Welshness/Irishness because I was brought up English in England, though (like the majoirty of people in Engalnd) with a mongrel background.

Evesmama... it's kind of expected and anticipated that the Scottish won't support England, however that is rather a sweeping statement and there are obviously exceptions to the rule.
I don't begin to understand all the antagonism and rivalry but it's always gone on and i'm sure will continue to do so for the forseeable future!

I think we have a problem with admitting to any sort of National priI seem to remember Yasmin Alibai Brown doing a series of programs about the English years ago. She concluded that young British men feel as if they have no cultural references for being English and are not able to take pride in their nationality. Wedded to the fact that Englishness used to be the byword for understatement. There is no way for English people to express patriotism in a positive way. And that is a problem. Every country needs to have some sense of solidarity and we can only use sporting events to do that…aggresively…and most people feel embarrassed about it.

There were many other empires that were as damaging as the British Empire. Why don’t the Spanish, Portuguese, French feel guilty about theirs? I do wonder if guilt is curiously English national emotion and the outpouring or ersatz patriotism is a warped reaction to that. As to British Empire being a largely English phoenomon….crap! A district controller in any part of the Empire weas just as likely to have a Scottish accent as a Home Counties one. I think the Empire should be reclaimed as a British event, not an English one, and the Scots and Welsh are welcome to their share of the guilt…perhaps in exchange for the chips on their shoulders.

Anyway England is more than the sum of it’s history, positive or otherwise.

Ignore the first bit of that.Didn't edit properly

i actually think its nice to see the flags and people joining in with the football..be it scottish, welsh, jamaican whereever..my nieghbour over the road(very posh sort) has just put a very nice St george flag up across his upstairs windows with England written acrros it in facy writing..lets hope none of the other neighbours are offended!

You will probably think I am absolutely mad, but I think a big problem with the English flag is that it is a little bit of red on white. This is very unflattering to the classic 'English' pasty complexion. White on bright red sunburn is even worse and doesn't do much to improve the image of the England flag wearer. Blue is a much more flattering colour.

evesmama - give me a link to some stats that show assylum seekers commit a high % of crime, because actually I understand that the opposite is true.

But my point was that assylum seekers and crime rates are absolutely nothing to do with patriotism and being able to fly the flag. and yes, I am trying to tell you what to think in that I am telling you the two things are in fact unconnected. but I am not telling you you shouldn't be proud of your country or fly a st george flag. You connect the two things - so do lots of people, and that's what makes lots of people queasy about the whole thing.

since when do they even publish the names of all criminals in an area anyway?

do you not get a local gazette or such like??
well they're in there.

yes I do see your point Blu but if I felt the desire to fly a St George Cross (and who knows? stranger things have happened) OR more generally to feel some pride in my country then I would not be deterred by fuzzy thinking/stupidity/tabloid mentalism. because it's My England as well as Theirs IYSWIM.
last year the (nonleague) football team of the (down at heel, much slagged off) town where I live won some trophy or other against all the odds and I must say I found it rather cheering to tbe in the middle of a bit of Civic Pride for once. There was even a parade! the sense of excitement in the town was palpable. In a place where so many shitty things happen, when sometimes it feels like no-one can say the name of the place where you live without sneering, it made a refreshing change.
I don't know what I am saying really except I expect I might feel much the same if England were to win the World Cup.
THEORETICALLY

God MadamePlatypus you might have something there
it's the sunburn against the stark white isn't it?
the history of this country would be some different if the background colour of the flag was changed to a nice Wedgewood Blue...

The flags are not just for football - what about the Ashes!!!!

the flags are to support england and whatever it is that needs supporting

I am in an assertive mood this very good day, must be the weather All this has to be put in context, I wont mince my words but you know, We are English, we were born, raised, worked and delivered our kids into this godforsaken country. We have been brought up with our own values,religious guidance courtesy of Church of England (Queen being the defender of the Faith) and all that. Whilst I have no problem in embracing other folks culture, I WILL NOT LOSE MY ENGLISH IDENTITY AND BELIEFS TO VISITORS WANTS IN THE NAME POLITICAL CORRECTNESS I dont know anywhere else in Europe where kids nativity plays are axed and noses are put out of joint because we cant fly our own flag once every 4 years.

HAIL TENA LADY!

thankyou for putting that so much better than my own cack handed explanation