DD has just joined Brownies and I have an issue with the promise...

[BonyM]

Now, as far as I was aware, Brownies/Guides is not affiliated to any religion, however the part of the Brownie promise is "to love my god".

As humanists, dh and I do not have a god, and dd1 is aware of this (although the christian religion is more or less a "given" as far as her school is concerned). Tbh dh wasn't 100% comfortable with her joining Brownies in the first place as it was his perception that they were "religious", although I had assured them that they weren't. DD was very keen though as a lot of her friends go, and I believed that any religious input would be minimal.

We (particularly dh) are uncomfortable at the notion of her promising to "love my god". DD1 is almost 8 and doesn't really know whether to believe in a god or not (due I guess to the conflicting views she has - ours and the schools).

The question is whether to make an issue of it, risking her feeling alienated from her peers and/or embarrassed, or to just ignore it with the view that whatever she is told at this age, she will make her own mind up eventually anyway.

What would others do in this situation?

I went to the Church guides and indeed we had a Church parade every month. You could choose the town guides but our neighbour was the guider for Church Guides (and tbh the town Guides were ROUGH).

several people have been surprised that BonyM should be "offended" at this
well I have read the OP again and again and.... well she's not saying that AT ALL. She is saying she's uncomfortable (not the same thing) and asking for a way to deal with a very common dilemma that faces humanists/atheists/non-Christians in a Christian country - fitting in versus (deeply held) principles.
I always wait for Christians on these threads to display the patience, understanding and tolerance which form the central tenet of their religion. I wait a long time and instead I tend to see a lot of enthusiastic scoffing at the principles held by humanists/atheists "like it or lump it." Not a great advert imo.
Oh and on a point of information Spidermama, parpers do not always keep coming back. I parped myself from that thread where several posters said that people who leave on the tv when visitors come round (i.e. my entire extended family) were rude and didn't return. Even though I had much more rant in me.
so not always then

When I joined the Brownies the leader was filling in my enrollment form and asked me what religion we were. I said I didn't know (we didn't have one, I didn't really get the question) She said "I'll put C of E then"

It's a classic example of people interpreting the concept of freedom of expression as the right to sabotage the (perfectly harmless) establishments and organisations of this country that have been run quietly and peacably by modest people in their own time and without pay.

If you want to go against the flow,do it in the privacy of your own homes why doncha?
That wouldn't suit the iconoclasts though would it?

Personally,I find it surprisingly easy to be a subversive whilst maintaining the trappings of mainstream mores.

er, no it's not moondog
it's nothing of the kind
bit early in the morning for hyperbole

Bollocks Harpsi.
That is exactly what it is.

I'm off to the gym now. A very good day to you all,Brownies and non Brownies.

BonyM ain't sabotaging anything
she says DD has joined something
I'm a bit uncomfortable
what shall I do?
it's a moral dilemma, expressed in a perfectly gentle way
she's not planning to storm the barricades
though I don't see any particular reason why, if the Brownies are changing to accommodate Muslims, say they shouldn't also consider changing to accommodate non-believers, by leaving those 4 words out of the promise of a child asks
I know, call me a fkn radical

Agree with HC.

Haven't read the whole thread. But do they still imclude 'to serve the queen' in the promise? I'd find that worse to be honest.

that would be a potential solution harpsi. I'm a practising Anglican, dh is a humanist. At our church wedding/blessing he said the vows but left out 'according to God's holy law'. Likewise, when ds was baptised he went and stood round the font with us but didn't take part in the baptismal vows. Didn't cause any eyebrows to be raised afaik.
The only problem with it would be if the child was made to stick out and feel very 'different'. Therefore it should be the child's decision, not the parents'.

I agree with harpsi. Don't care enough to post more than that I don't think!

It is a spriitual organisation

from the guiding website:

Guides come from all kinds of backgrounds. Guiding is open to every girl or young woman - regardless of race, faith or personal circumstance - provided she is able to understand the Guide Promise to the best of her ability and is willing to make it. The Promise is a three-fold commitment which asks that a Guide should do her best to:

* seek spiritual development
* contribute to society
* live by a simple code - the Guide Law. 

Guiding respects the special requirements of each girl's faith or culture, such as dress, diet, holy days and so on.

yes it is
it is also an organisation that has a falling roll and a desperate need for more leaders. I was a leader for along time and managed to square it with my conscience. But I couldn't now, tbh.

The Scouting movement, including Brownies, has always been a Christian organisation, heavily involved with the Church of England. I think the promise is actually quite broad as it doesn't ask a child to love God, but refers to "my god", whoever that might be. If you don't have a god, it might be a little odd to say that, but I don't really think you can have your child join an existing organisation and then state that you want them to change how they do things. So, in your situation, if you want her to continue (bearing in mind that she may be expected to get involved in church events, such as parades, etc.), I would just let her do what the others do and trust her to make up her on mind eventually.

Haven't read any posts other than the OP, so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said.

Is there a Woodcraft Folk group in the area? DS goes to one as we weren't too keen on Beavers and, more to the point, they seemed particularly cold towards having DS.

Not read the whole thread but the promised changed while I Was A brownie

It was to love God but change to love My God... to be politically correct.

The point being by loving your god.... you only love him if you have one if yuo see what i mean.

Also brownies were a christian thing often linked to churched werent they?.... if you dont like it dont join!!!!

dd1 is desperate to join and would love it

BUT you have to put their name down when they are about 3 here and there are no spaces left

Didn't Modern Parents in Viz send their child to the Woodcraft Folk?

I'll have to look through the Viz issues now, whatever they had to say about the WF would have been spot on!

I'm surprised that anyone has brownies etc to join these days because i think it is another thankless task for volunteers to run