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Original poster

DD has just joined Brownies and I have an issue with the promise...

239 replies

BonyM · 22/03/2006 22:10

Now, as far as I was aware, Brownies/Guides is not affiliated to any religion, however the part of the Brownie promise is "to love my god".

As humanists, dh and I do not have a god, and dd1 is aware of this (although the christian religion is more or less a "given" as far as her school is concerned). Tbh dh wasn't 100% comfortable with her joining Brownies in the first place as it was his perception that they were "religious", although I had assured them that they weren't. DD was very keen though as a lot of her friends go, and I believed that any religious input would be minimal.

We (particularly dh) are uncomfortable at the notion of her promising to "love my god". DD1 is almost 8 and doesn't really know whether to believe in a god or not (due I guess to the conflicting views she has - ours and the schools).

The question is whether to make an issue of it, risking her feeling alienated from her peers and/or embarrassed, or to just ignore it with the view that whatever she is told at this age, she will make her own mind up eventually anyway.

What would others do in this situation?

OP posts:
nulnulcat · 22/03/2006 23:24

what does parp mean? can someone please explain?

SleepyJess · 22/03/2006 23:25

They don't wear turd brown exclusively anymore! The uniform is quite trendy.. DD can't wait to be enroled..

spidermama · 22/03/2006 23:28

nulnulcat it's this word which old timers like to use to mean 'this is a subject which really gets on my nerves and makes me so furious that I don't feel like I want to debate it so I won't'.

Rude and pointless in my opinion. Plus, parpers always stick around any way so it's meaningless. I think it should stand for Pretentious And Rude Poster. But that's a bit pretentious and rude of me. Grin

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:29

I'm not suggesting she has to send her - I've already said I think brownies is pretty poor. What I was driving at is that her own sensitivities could lead her child to constantly be the odd one out, not allowed to go to brownies becasue if this or something else because of another laspe in pc perfection could work out badly in the long run.

As I suggested its surely best to use the oath to open a discussion - work out something for themselves. I'm not suggesting that she tells her daughter to lie.

And Hattie people don't live in fear - but they do have to fanny about quite a bit sometimes - especially traditional organisations - to please everyone - and in doing so theres always someone who's still not happy. You really can't win.

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:29

What do you mean by less mainstream?

As in what if the Brownies were an Islamic group?

hunkermunker · 22/03/2006 23:29

Hang on, nobody's picked up on Arfissimo wanting to go to Brownies because the uniform was cooler.

Than what?!

spidermama · 22/03/2006 23:31

Or Mormons, Scientologists or, heaven forfend, Humanists! Grin

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:31

What if they worshipped owls?

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:32

brownies uniform is not cooler than anything - I always thought they looked awful in turd brown...

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:32

Ok but you did say people daren't say a word for fear of ...

I don't wish that 'traditional' groups change their ways. I just feel strongly that people shouldn't be expected to send their children to a groups whose beliefs they don't agree with.

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:33

Anything which is attached to a religion would not be at the top of my list to send my dd to. I am not fussy Smile.

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:34

turn of speech - I didn't mean they were quaking in their boots of shivvering with terror. So instead of "for fear of" read "concerned"

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:36

I know sharklet i'm really not that picky, was just demonstrating where i got the terminology from in the first place.

But are you sure you're not in fear? Wink

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:36

Hattie - I'm not expecting her too, just saying not to use it as a flimsy excuse to segregate her from her freinds when, if her DD is really desperate to go, there might be a way around it.

Its rubbish being the odd one out in your group of freinds.

sharklet · 22/03/2006 23:37

peeing myself here in fright Hattie Wink

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:38

And i agree with you there.

( i don't have energy to read the thread)

But i think there were some comments about whats wrong with the brownies and oh just ignore the bit about promise to God.
Unrelated to missing out iyswim.

(not saying you said such comments but i thought i read some somewhere.)

I'm going to bed now to dream about little brown splats skipping over toad stalls Shock

Hattie05 · 22/03/2006 23:39

Oh god, don't anyone feel offended that i called brownies splats please .......... Blush

sunnydelight · 22/03/2006 23:48

I think this has probably gone beyond the original question, but basically do what you are comfortable with. I knew Beavers (which DS2 attends) is basically Christian which is fine by me so I sent him. I will not let DS1 join the army cadets even though they do really "cool" activities because I have an issue with the military. Personally I would prefer not to put myself in a situation where I felt I had to support something I wasn't comfortable with but that's an individual choice. Having said that as a child I was in an organisation that was very clearly religious and not "my" religion and it didn't bother either me or my parents. Opting out of the religious aspects wasn't an option though so that was a choice we had to make.

SleepyJess · 22/03/2006 23:52

Shock Shock I TOTALLY object to you referring to my darling little girl as a ... a.... splat!!!! Shock

Wink
quanglewangle · 22/03/2006 23:57

What no mums of cubs here? Maybe we aren't as principled as mums of brownies!! I am sure the promise is the same, and yes it did bother me a lot but cubs was too good to miss out on. Mainly because of the varied activities - single activity clubs are too serious. Swimming clubs want them training several times a week at some ridiculously early hour. Gym and football is only for the serious and talented. But cubs gave them a taste of all sorts of things - canoing etc. And he learnt to make a curry!! I would imagine the same applies to brownies.

xxxviii · 23/03/2006 07:29

i feel the same as you BonyM, there are several religous run kiddy groups around here (that my children's mates go to) and I don't like my kids being put in a contradictory situation just because we are humanists, too.

mumatuks · 23/03/2006 07:37

Hi BonyM I have read your opening post with surprise! I used to go to Brownies, and it was all religion then. However, I grew up in a village which was all white, the first school was CofE and the Vicar used to come in every Thursday to assembly (much to the kids upset as he was so boring)

As for Brownies, for some reason I can still reciet (sp?) that bloody promise now at 25!! LOL However, it is had no influence on my adulthood as I have chosen not to be religious. It was about 5 yrs ago I found my Brownie Guide Handbook and I was shocked that it was so full of "do everything for God!"

If it were my DD I would let her go, as I doubt she will see the religous side of it, she'll have fun with her friends and peers, gain confidence from group activities etc. If your DD has questions, answer them as fairly as you can, and maybe bring in aspects of other religions. Whatever it is, she will choose her own way in the world when she is an adult.

believe me, I;m not religious, brownies has had no influence on me as I get older... except I carry 10p and a triangular bandage with me everywhere!! Grin

Enid · 23/03/2006 07:45

tell her to remember to fill in her 'nail care' chart or she will get chucked out.

Oh, not a good idea to make up rude words to the Brownie song either, or take one of those giggle cushion things to Brownies and set it off out of sight of Brown Owl.

Grin
Tinker · 23/03/2006 07:53

My daughter interprets "my god" as meaning me Grin We're all happy.

zippitippitoes · 23/03/2006 07:56

Aren't there church affiliated brownies and non church affiliated..and if the former do they not end the evening with prayers and go yo church parade once a month?

Also honour the flag.

Girls can join cubs too can't they?