Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

Was my face in the OP invisible?

I could take a man's toe off with my heels.

Lots of the advice we were given when younger made us MORE vulnerable. Take a cab... how many sexual assaults happened in unlicensed cabs? Get a lift/walked home by a friend... much more likely that a man you know is going to rape you than a stranger.

So if you meant athletic, why would you say chaste?

Or even chaste ?

Completely different.

I always wore flats, big coat, no visible valuables, never went home pissed etc, but I still got beaten up by a mugger. Later that night when the unmarked police car was driving me around trying to spot the bastard, we saw an obviously drunk woman in stilettos, micro mini, blinged up to the eyeballs, happily tottering home. It could've been her, but no, it was just timing and opportunity for the mugger - you can't avoid all risk, however carefully you moderate your own behaviour, even though she was clearly at more risk than I was as she seemed completely oblivious to her surrounding.

I honestly think that if you don't take basic steps to look after your own safety then getting home safely has more to do with luck than anything else. If that night's circs had been repeated for a month, I would put money down that I would have got home safely more times than tottering woman.

Leaving your keys in your front door doesn't mean you're inviting burglars in, but it's unwise and you wouldn't do it on purpose. Likewise, having every door and window triple locked wouldn't stop a committed burglar from breaking in.

You hope that doggie, sure. I don't think anyone hopes their son grows up to be a rapist.

You need to teach your kids about boundaries. You need to reinforce that the stuff they see on TV isn't always true. Many rapists do not believe themselves to be rapists - they think she wanted it/asked for it/consented, when none of these things were true.

We can't just bury our heads in the sand and hope that everything will be ok.

A friend of mine was raped in her sleep by her best friend. They continued being best friends after. That is how fucked up this world is.

I assume she used the word chaste clothing so we all knew what she meant.

Athletic clothing could be chaste or revealing depending if it were a tracksuit or a bikini.

Lets not get into semantics.

They are rapist out there. There will always be rapists.

We all want to protect our children from that, and one way to do that is to encourage our children to make choices that do not make them vulnerable.

I'd imagine that an opportunistic rapist (which seems to be mainly what the OP meant) is going to pick the easiest target. We all want to make sure that is not our/son or daughter.

THAT IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING IF SOMEONE IS DRUNK/WEARING MINIMAL CLOTHING/WALKING IN DARK ALLEYS AT 3AM THEN IT IS THEIR FAULT THEY GOT RAPED

IMO the main thing is trusting your own feelings, not just as a rape preventer, but also to get help afterwards if it does happen

I think, OP, it is a hard thing to teach if you don't teach it in relation to other things, right down to superficial things. I try not to say things like "don't be silly, of course you like tomatos" etc. If you respect your children's feelings on a daily basis, they're more likely to respect their own feelings and trust them in a dodgy situation?

My mum always advised me to walk home with the people I went out with.. ie my female friends, and not to get a cab alone either, and in general I stuck with that and have done for the last 25 years of going out drinking or clubbing.

I was another who grew up in the era of the Yorkshire Ripper and although he had been caught just as I reached my teens, it was something that was very fresh in the minds of our parents back then.

It isn't semantics at all. It is a very pervasive message being sent out, to boys, that girls indicate their sexual availablity by the clothes they wear.

And it's the boys who need to stop hearing that message.

Well, I was raped by someone I knew when hopelessly drunk, so drunk I hardly remember anything (thankfully), but I do remember him coming on to me and saying no. Next thing I remember I was lying on a bed named from the waist down, while he was looking for stg to "clean up with".

Soyes I will teach my dds not to make themselves vulnerable, and my ds to respect women.

Of couse we must educate our sons to respect women and that no is no, but I don't see anything wrong with also trying to teach them to reduce risks whenever possible.

Hope this makes sense.
(namechanged for this, I have never told anyone about this)

And I think we are kidding ourselves if we think wearing chaste clothes will prevent our daughters from opportunist rapists.

wheresmybagel.

So op are you going to teach your daughter to never live with a man?

Quibbling about the use of the word chaste is semantics :)

I agree though, clothing should never be seen like traffic lights.

This is a good site:

www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/

black you are just saying stuff now and not really saying anything

yellowraincoat "Many rapists do not believe themselves to be rapists - they think she wanted it/asked for it/consented, when none of these things were true." Good point. I get that. I worry about sexual attitudes in youngsters - i saw it all to real when i worked at a school a while back. The way the boys spoke about the girls :(

With regard specifically to dress and following on from Itsallgoingtobefine perhaps look into a full length burqa for the DDs? Anything else could be construed as leaving your doors and windows open. After all it's not like rape ever happens in Saudi Arabia where women know how to dress modestly. It's tricky though because unless men are also wearing burqas I somehow feel that potential rapists will know someone wearing a burqa probably has a vagina, in which case a burqa is just the same as leaving your doors and windows open but drawing the curtains all the way round the house. The question is how do you stop a burglar from even knowing your house exists? Jeans appear to be the most commonly worn piece of clothing by rape victims so definitely no jeans at a minimum.

Ruby I know it's difficult but stranger rape is nowhere near as common as date rape so really how do you police this? Chaperone your DDs on every date until they are how old? Never get in a black cab because your cab driver could be a rapist? Never get a mini cab because your mini cab driver could be a rapist? Never let a male friend walk you home because he could be pretending to protect you from other rapists when his intention is to rape you? Never wear jeans?

We only have a DS and I tend to think we as parents probably have more control over reducing the risks of your DDs being raped by me and his dad doing our utmost to ensure DS grows up not to be a rapist and that starts with him respecting women and girls as his equals. One less rapist would have more effect on reducing your DDs risk than your DDs modifying their behaviour to the nth degree in order to avoid mythical situations which 'increase' their chances of being raped.

the respecting your kids feelings on a superficial daily level is probably transferable to preventing sons from becomming rapists too, IMO difficult to tell them to respect other's boundaries and feelings when they haven't experienced that. E.g. we never force DS to kiss anyone goodbye if he doesn't want to or to give hugs if he doesn't feel like it! It would be wrong IMO to teach him that its bad manners to have control over your own body!

I think the clothes are a bit of irrelevant to be honest - i agree with fallenmadonna. It is often about being in the wrong place at the wrong time - it is unwise to walk home after dark, alone, i tell my dd not to do this. I tell her to get her DP to pick her up from the train station if she gets a train home, or to get him to pick her up if she is out without him. Fortunately, he does this. It is quite simple, walking home alone afer dark puts you at risk from assault - if you are not walking home alone it protects you from that particular type of assault.

bagel :( I'm so sorry.

I think the OP needs to teach her daughter to spot warning signs so that she knows to leave an abusive man. Will this 100% stop her being raped? No. Could it help? Yes.

She needs to teach her that her body is her body and that it's not ok if she says no and someone has sex with her anyway. She needs to know that if that happens, she should go to the police.

And she should teach her that when she hears her male friends say stuff like "slag" or "slut" or making rape jokes, then she should counter them.

I think the clothing thing is something that needs to stop being bandied about. A girl wears a short skirt = she is a slag = it's ok if she's raped. That's an association that needs to die right now.

We are never going to get anywhere if we snipe at people who want to learn. The OP wants to know how she can help her daughters.

Oh yes BlackOutTheSun, I had neverthoughtofthatwhatagoodidea.
No I am talking about reducing the odds. There is no absolute way to prevent.
wheresmybagel, thank you for your bravery,that must have taken alot of strength to do that. ((hugs))

"It is a very pervasive message being sent out, to boys, that girls indicate their sexual availablity by the clothes they wear"

See, that is a difficult one for me, because on the one hand, many girls and women (myself included in my younger years) would and do go out dressed to get as much male attention as possible, and are giving out a message that they are sexually available... but the problem then lies in that there are some men who are incapable of realising that that does not mean the woman is available to everyone.

I have seen women leading men on, accepting drinks off them, leading them very clearly to believe that they are up for sex, and basically taking the piss, and I have also seen men plying women with drink, and getting them shitfaced to the point that they end up leaving with the man, when if sober they wouldnt have given him the time of day. I have spent many years working behind the bar witnessing this sort of behaviour.

Alcohol plays a very big part in many rapes, on both sides.