Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

"You can be pissed as a fart and not be raped if there isn't a rapist around"

Nobody would disagree with that, but if there was a rapist around, you are less likely to become his victim if you stick with your mates, and have your wits about you rather than being pissed and throwing caution to the wind.

You know what? I teach my children not to steal and lie and hit. But I know not all parents do that. So I'm not going to naively say well all parents should be teaching their son's not to rape. cos thats not gonna happen.
I'm going to teach my DD's to live their live's ina way that they are lowering the odds of being damaged. So that also includes road awarenss, not wlaking with headphones in, not to flash fancyphones around, leave bag unattended etc.
I don't want to be convincing my DD's that its not their fault they were raped, I just don't want them raped. I want to give them strategies to lower the odds. And I'mfully aware that not all rape is stranger in the park stuff. I want to give them confidence so that they can deal with any situation that makes them uncomfortable and methods of not ending up in vunlerable situations.

you can be pissed as a fart and get lost on the way home black is it not important to teach kids that this can also happen, I am not the sort of parent who thinks there is a bad man round every corner to steal children but i think by allowing children to behave how they want is irresponsible with rights comes responsibility,

So how are you going to teach that

And if there is an opportunist rapist around, do you think it matters to them what you are wearing?

It is a really interesting debate. I wouldn't walk down a dark alleyway at night on my own, so I would teach my kids (ds and dds) not to.
Is that more likely to make them think they are at fault if something happens? I really think that depends on how you give the message and what other messages you are teaching as well.
We teach our kids loads of stuff, so this bit comes in the context of the rest of their life. I already teach my dcs that their privates are private and if anyone tries to touch them to say go away, they are mine, and to tell me so I can tell them to stop and so on. I also teach them body confidence, respect for others, empathy, making wise choices, that getting drunk makes it hard to make good choices, that sex does make babies, and so on. It is amazing what comes up in conversation when you answer all questions honestly, and mine are quite little so we haven't hit any of the biggies yet. I find it impossible to see this in isolation really.

'So how are you going to teach that?'

Teach what, Blackout?

Apparently blackout. I was saying the same things as people here were - I will watch with interest to see who gets deleted. I see you're trotting out your favourite little sound bite again. Good times.

as this debate is here i'll ask this (and wear a hard hat)

Does anyone agree that there are two types of rapist

The "entitled" cunt of a bloke who thinks that because a girl has dressed sexily to attract the opposite sex is asking to be fucked and that going on date with her is a green light.

The lurking rapist who pounces on someone walking home? Serial killer mysogenist?

Which is worse? I dont know, they are both terrible but i imagine the devestation differs depending on the situation :(

Well there are probably many kinds of rapist actually. How can we protect our daughters from them? How can we empower them to protect themselves?

Thefallenmadonna - i think you are exactly right! My mother, when she was younger, was chased by, what potentially could have been a potential opportunistic rapist but thank god she out ran him. This was as she walked home from work IN THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY!!!

I'd include teaching boys how to tell when a girl/woman is having a good time:

• she's not unconscious
• she's not so drunk she can't speak or stand
• she's not crying
• she's not trying to avoid you or get away from you
• she's not telling you she has to go now, she wants to go home, please leave her alone
• she's smiling and laughing and responsive and receptive and reciprocative, and the minute she stops being any of these things, then maybe she's not having a good time.

And you don't have sex with a woman who's not enjoying it.

"And if there is an opportunist rapist around, do you think it matters to them what you are wearing?"

Yes, it could.

A woman wearing boots and jeans is going to be able to put up more of a struggle and be a more difficult target than a woman in a skirt and heels.

An opportunist rapist has one thing in mind and that is penetration. He doesnt want to be caught. A rapist will often pick their target based on the one they think is the going to be the easiest to assault and be able to overpower.

"And if there is an opportunist rapist around, do you think it matters to them what you are wearing?"

I think tottering in heels that I couldn't run in would certainly be a bonus to one if they spotted me walking alone.

If one saw a group of women walking home together and they split at a cross road to go to their seperate houses, then I think what they were wearing might be a factor, as in the one in trainers taking long strides might be better off

however thats not to say the one in trainers wouldn't be chosen if she was the only one to break away from the group so I"m not saying "wear heels = get raped, wear trainers and you definitely wont be!)

its one of many factors, much less of one probably than being alone or drunk, but still a bit of a factor

I'd still like to know if you have a teenage daughter Blackout, and if your opinion about giving her advice about lifeskills has changed as the RL situations impact on her.
DS is naive, has little understanding of deceit or stranger danger and is easy to manipulate. He may well be a crime victim in the future, despite having a few advantages. Should I let him wander the streets without any advice to help him?
Should I have let my DD find out the dangers of walking the streets at night without street smarts? I'm happy with the choices I've made.

And I'm going to say again that the OP referred to "chaste" clothing. Not athletic clothing. Chaste. Which means something else entirely, no?

bananaistheanswerTue 03-Jul-12 23:23:21

Did the 'we believe you' campaign actually happen? Or was it just a dream?
I don't really understand your point, bananaistheanswer. I'm trying to teach my DD's to live their lives so being believed re sexual assault is not necesary.

Would you like to qualify your statement there Dreaming?

There was a study can't link on phone done on rapists where only a same % could remember what their victim was wearing

I would hope that if i did have a son i woudlnt have to teach him not to be a rapist! I would hope that he would be a decent person who is considerate of other peoples feelings and have enough empathy to realise when someone isn't comfortable with a situation. Just as i teach my DD.

I am telling both my sons and my daughter that they need to take care of themselves. The boys, statistically, are far more likel to be victims of assault. I'm of the Yorkshire Ripper generation. Hell, we all knew there was one murderer out there, and that the murders were all down to him, but there a was no way we wanted to put ourselves at risk.

From the earliest days when you have to tell the about "stranger" danger, they learn that there are criminals out there who might seek to rob or hurt them. So I talk to all of them about situation awareness, the need to avoid becoming so drunk you are an easy target, not leaving drinks unattended, not flashing jewellery or covetable gadgets, changing shoes on the way home to ones you can run in (similarly, can you run in whatever you are wearing), plan how you'll be getting home, keep an emergency tenner away from your drinking money, carry your door keys in your hand, pay attention to who is around you, stick to well frequented areas, don't go off with strangers no matter how shaggable (or at least make sure someone else knows what you're doing), look out for your mates. Ad they've all done martial arts.

None is a guarantee. But they are all elements of risk management that I think are important to pass on.

I saw a young girl the other weekend infact she is in my DDs year at school Pissed and her friends had left her I had to help her off the road and she went off with some lads, I also knew , it really saddens me seeing young girls so drunk and incapable at such a young age the lad said he would take her home her 'sisters' left her