Would I be a terrible woman if i advise my DD's to act in a way so they are less likely to be assaulted.

[Rubytuesdayy]

With respect to lit streets, chaste clothes, state of drunkenness etc etc? Or would I be victim blaming prior to teh event. I KNOW that rape is the fault of the rapists, but I just want my DD's to be safe.

That's what I'm concerned about. I'd ne'er want her to feel she asked for it if she did get completely drunk. But I want her to know that there are risks attached to that behaviour.

I don't see it as trying to control her behaviour. More of trying to control what kind of situations she could find herself in.

when My children are out with friends I always make sure they have mobiles on them are in a group and if they are going to be walking home they are with somebody or least half way home ,not just because they maybe raped they could fall be run over or their head could bloody fall off , friends with boys do the same,

Tell your children to be sensible and look out for themselves. Whatever their gender.

I've taken similar steps, not so much with telling them how to dress but I don't live with a man or have one stay in the house overnight and I discourage them from having boyfriends (they are nearly 22, nearly 20 and 13) or spending any time alone with male relatives - that's most risks of sexual assault covered I think.

I suppose if I really gave a shit I wouldn't have sent them to school, ever let them use public transport, answer the door, go to work, university, or leave the house. A man did break in once but that was my fault for not having a dog to scare him away.

I think you have to be really careful. It's not about the Sisterhood, FFS. It's about actually helping girls and women to stay safe. Teaching them to have their own money, control their housing, not letting someone control what they do or who they talk to. Telling them to dress nicely and walk home with someone won't actually keep them safe.

So would any of you say to your son don't be out late at night don't get drunk because you might turn into a rapist?

Is there evidence that "unchaste" clothes increase risk of sexual (or indeed other) assault?

Ruby my DD is 10 yo so about ages with your youngest 2 DDs.

I would love for her to take up Karate (my DS does karate) but I'm not inclined to put in her head that it's for her own protection. She might start wondering "why do I need to protect myself". At the moment her dad and I do that.

But when she gets a bit older, I'll be having words.

She dresses quite trendy, sometimes I'll say to her if it's not suitable. She likes the American TV shows and I see Selena Gomez as a 20 yo playing a 15 yo, DD doesn't.

I feel very when I see young, drunk girls in town. They are so vunerable. And they are all someone's daughter.

Agree with MrsT. We should all be teaching our children to have personal responsibility. But perhaps instead of you having to teach your daughter that getting drunk or dressing a certain way might get her raped, I should teach my sons that a woman's body isn't public property. And maybe if we all did that, and made the rapists responsible for rape rather than their victims, we might get somewhere.

But this isn't necessarily a feminist thing - I've given the same spiel to my adult DS1, and to my teenage DS2 - don't cut across a deserted park at midnight when you're half pissed and your reactions are slow, walk on the road. I wouldn't cut across a deserted park at midnight - no-one would. Why put yourself at more potential risk when there's a well-lit street nearby? It diidn't stop DS1 getting beaten up, it didn't stop DD getting sexually assaulted, but it's all you can do.

It's not about bowing to the inevitable, or saying curtail your behaviour because otherwise you asked for it - that's just bollocks. It's about doing what you can to be marginally safer from the bastards than you might otherwise be.

Although to be serious I was pleased when the eldest passed her test and could ferry herself from A to B rather than rely on lifts from friends, but I was thinking more of driving under influence and inexperienced drivers showing off than sexual assault although some taxi drivers are creepy. One just drove off with me and a friend once instead of taking us to our hotel.

No Blackout but I'll be telling my son to be very sure when he has sex to make sure it's consentual and to use a condom.

I think people are taking this to extremes TBH but i guess thats the nature of answers, keeping children safe is a priority it has nothing to do with if girls want to go out with their boobs on show or short skirts or if they get pissed , It is about keeping girls aware of situations they could find themselves in its not about isolating them or making them out to be a victim or even control it is making children and young adults self aware ,

Blackout
Your 22.59.54 post:

Quite.

I can see how this thread will go.. just like all the other similar ones where anyone dares to say that both men and women should be aware of their surroundings and make an effort to take care of their own personal safety.

I happen to think you are correct OP.

I've said this on MN before, but I am expected to teach PSHE lessons that tell girls that they shouldn't dress "provocatively" as part of personal safety awareness. I suggested that what we should be teaching is that judging someone's sexual availablity from their clothes is a pretty dubious business, and you could end up in a lot of trouble if you made the wrong assumption. This was not a popular opinion amongst the rest of my team, and I think I am the only person who teaches it that way. It makes me very sad.

boys as well as girls*

Blackoutthesun - I'd tell my son not to be out alone drunk incase he got mugged or beaten or worse. The same things I'd tell my daughter.

I'd tell them both that drinking beyond sense is always going to carry huge risks to your safety. Be that some kind of attacker or a sense of confidence so high you convince yourself you can balance on the bridge.

I've not laid much thought into the clothes thing. In truth I feel it doesn't matter. I think if a rapist or sexual predator wants to act, it's all about how accessible you are.

Thank you to those who have accepted this thread as an interesting debate. Because it is.
And doggiemumma - thanks, but not so brave as I have obviously name changed. Glad I did as well.

"So would any of you say to your son don't be out late at night don't get drunk because you might turn into a rapist?"

I would (and did) say to my stepson to not walk home alone while drunk. To ring me if he wanted a lift home, or to stay with his mates and get a cab.

Rape is not the only danger to a person walking alone at night.

Right so you are telling your son to use a condom yet i should be telling my dd to be careful of what she wears how she acts, how much she drinks, not to be out late at night, not to be on her own?

Greythorne. Don't you think 70isaTarget's response has a very valid point?

There are many reasons not to walk home alone while drunk; hypothermia; alcohol poisoning; RTAs; idiots; unseen dog turds. By all means tell kids not to get as drunk as monkeys then walk home. Please don't tell girls that this will prevent them being raped because it won't.

Chickens I have actually thought about how I can bring DS up so that he understands just that - so much media crap from every angle flashing naked women and the 'sex sells' attitude, it scares me that he could grow up learning his sexual morals from advertising rather than from us. It's scary that this even worries me, why on earth do we live in a culture where 50% of the population is objectified like this? Will definitely talk to him about rape and rape myths when he's old enough to understand - it's too important too sweep under the carpet.

If I ever have a DD I will do as the OP and tell her about the ways to avoid obvious risk, while teaching her that you can never avoid all risk, and it is never the victim's fault in a sexual assault (not the same if it was an RTA and she'd walked out into the road drunk!).

But don't you tell your daughter that Blackout? Of course she should be able to behave in a way she sees fit, she should be able to walk home at midnight without a second thought, and to drink moderate amounts (because we all know that drinking too much has health risks to to tell people to drink themelves legless is irresponsible) but we live in a world with sexual predetors and people who will beat someone to death for the sake of a few pounds so if you don't tell your daughter those things, then you are niave.