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Original poster

Does anyone remove their children from the religious bits at school?

277 replies

WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:15

I am Pagan (for want of a better description), and although I would like to bring dd up to have an understanding of world religions, I don't really intend to bring her up with any sort of God in our lives. When she is old enough to make up her own mind then that's fine, but she's only 4 at the moment.

I'm getting a bit concerned about the amount of overtly religious stuff that she's getting at school. It's not a faith school, just a bog standard ordinary state primary. As well as the daily prayer and so on, she's now telling me about other things that have been happening and it seems that twice a week they have visitors from local churches, and the indoctrination has started. Yesterday they were being taught about the promises that God makes to us, and at one point she was asked to make a promise to God. I have no problem with her learning about what some people believe God is and what they believe he does, but from what she tells me this is being presented as undisputed truth, and it makes me uneasy.

I've talked to her before about God and about what certain other religions believe, but from an angle that this is what some people believe, but Mummy and Daddy don't believe that. Now she's being told (by people she believes only teach things that are true) that God is categorically real, and that she has to make promises to him.

I considered taking her out of the religious aspects right from the start, but was assured that it was only a daily prayer ... which is obviously not the case. I'm now considering it again, but I'm not sure whether it would single her out as being different if she wasn't taking part.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about religion, or whether I'm wrong to feel the way I feel; I just wondered if there's anyone out there who removes their child from the religious aspects, and what the upshot from it has been. I don't want my child taught that things we don't believe in are the truth, but then again I don't want her bullied if I take her away from it.

OP posts:
Feistybird · 25/01/2006 11:21

No I don't, but apart from the various religious festivals (of all denominations), religion is very low-key at our school - mind you it's not CofE or anything, so no daily prayer etc.

I would find this level of RE a bit unsettling too, but if it is a CofE school, then I guess it's only to be expected.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:22

But it isn't a CofE school, it's a bog standard state primary. Which is why I find it unsettling.

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Feistybird · 25/01/2006 11:24

well in that case I would'nt be happy either (tbh, the prayer alone would be enough for me). Could you book an appointment with the head to discuss their 'policy' on RE?

LeahE · 25/01/2006 11:27

DS isn't that old yet, but if it were the sort of thig you're describing then I would (unlikely though at the school he's likely to go to). I'd be inclined to make it clear though that you wouldn't have a problem with a low-key daily prayer but that it's the repeated introduction of religious instruction at other times that has led you to withdraw your DD.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:28

I might have to do that - she's very approachable. I wasn't even sure if what they were doing is normal for schools these days or if it's too much by anyone's standards.

Initially it was the daily prayer that I felt uncomfortable with, but didn't want to remove her from that as I thought it would make her stand out as being different. But the stuff she's telling me just gets more and more OTT - and the school don't tell the parents about this stuff, I'm only finding out from dd, so I might have to have a chat with the head about it.

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elliott · 25/01/2006 11:31

Thsi does seem a lot more than most non faith schools would be offering - I mean, don't they have to be sensitive to the diversity and other faiths that children may come from?
I'd be uncomfortable wiht this level of religion, but I don't know if I'd be brave enough to remove ds from it. I hope so.

Feistybird · 25/01/2006 11:32

WWB, just to give you the flip side of the coin, our school 'does' Christmas with the nativity etc. and does Light festival activities for Diwali and so on, but other than that, I've not heard my DD mention religion.

hub2dee · 25/01/2006 11:32

Sounds a little OTT, but I'm not in a position to know a lot about primary schools yet, wwb. This sort of thing would certainly annoy me, if it is presented as The Ultimate and Only Truth IYSWIM.

scotlou · 25/01/2006 11:34

WE're in the same boat. ds attends a Scottish state primary - before he started we were told that there was a daily prayer "but they don't need to say it, just shut their eyes and be quiet" - and taht tehre was a religious assembly once a month. What has actually transpired is that there is a daily prayer (try explaining to a 5 year old that he doesn't have to say it!), Grace before lunch, and an assembly fairly regularly where church groups etc come in. - and like your experience these people give their views as WHAT IS CORRECT - and not just what is one person's point of view. Seriously considering excluding him at least from these assemblies - but in a school of 43 kids he will stand out like a sore thumb.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:40

They do celebrate other faith's feasts - they made Divali lights, and she came back full of Eid stories - but they seem to be presenting those a bit like fairy stories rather than truths.

Hub, they do seem to be presenting Christianity as The Ultimate And Only Truth, from what she's saying ... and because school is somewhere where you learn facts, she's believing them.

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WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:44

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Feistybird · 25/01/2006 11:47

Maybe other children are excluded from RE WWB, and are doing other activities... would be amazed if in a school this size, you are the only 'Pagan' (made me smile, that did).

I think a chat with the head is the only way forward, so you know what your options are.

moondog · 25/01/2006 11:47

Parp parp parpity parp!!!
When the UK is a Caliphate you'll all be wishing you'd appreciated our country's low key approach to religion!!

TheDullWitch · 25/01/2006 11:49

Well, your RSI is a lot better today WigWamBam.

fennel · 25/01/2006 11:51

i wouldn't remove her she'll stick out and that's hard for a child. unless she's old enough to ask herself to not attend these aspects of school, at which point i'd go with her wishes

my dds don't get much religious education or prayers at their community primary, except at christmas when the school is big on the nativity story. i just talk to them about it and tell them i don't believe it. we discuss it, you can use it as a way of discussing things, rather than see it as indoctrination.

geekgrrl · 25/01/2006 11:54

well moondog, would you feel completely relaxed if your small child was routinely told by her teachers thast she must not step on the gaps between paving stones because something bad will then happen to her mummy? To me that's the same superstitious nonsense.

Other western countries do just fine without ramming it down their children's throats at school.

WWB, you need to talk to the head and then take it from there. We decided our dd would miss too much good stuff if she stayed away from assembly.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:54

Parp all you like, moondog - I have a valid question that I was asking, and I have the right to ask it and get advice from it. I already stated that I'm not interested in an argument about religion, just on whether removing my child from something I don't agree with will do her more harm than good.

The DullWitch, my RSI is never a lot better but thank you for your concern (that was sarcasm, by the way, just in case you were wondering).

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Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 11:57

Fennel, we do discuss it, and I shall have another chat with her about it in the light of the visit that they had yesterday. It's just confusing for her that I'm saying one thing, and school are saying another - particularly as school is a place she associates with learning the truth.

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Feistybird · 25/01/2006 11:57

Moondog, just had to look up Caliphate in the dioctionary - where do you live then?

Kelly1978 · 25/01/2006 11:57

My dp isn't christian but was never exempted from xtian teaching at school, and what he learned at home had a lot more impact. Despite whatever he learned at school, he is very true to his roots. So I wouldn't think that what your dd is learning at school will have much affect if you reinforce your beliefs at home. I worry about what mine are learning at school, but exempting them really hadn't crossed my mind, though I am considering not sendign them to the junior as it is cofe. I think I would keep an eye on things for a bit, then if you are worried that she is taking it in mroe than you want perhaps you could do a trial of exempting her?

fennel · 25/01/2006 11:59

it's good for them to learn that different adults do have different versions of "truth", i think.

we are atheists, all our dds grandparents are christians. mine are very evangelical. so our dds already get quite different views from adults they respect. then they get the school perspective too. it really has led to some good theological debates on the school walk. mine are 5 and 4.

my parents thought about removing us from RE and assembly but we were terrified of sticking out (we already stuck out a bit at school in various ways, it's hard for children to stick out). so we didn't want them to.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 12:03

Mmm, the "different versions of the truth" is an interesting point. We've tried to tell her about different faiths; we have some Plymouth Brethren in our street and she has some Muslim friends so the subject has come up, but never really in a way that we could relate to our own lives, if that makes sense. This seems more personal as it's her who is being expected to make promises to God, but I think you're right that it can be discussed as "different versions of the truth".

I never expected to be dealing with stuff while she was still not 5 though!

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fennel · 25/01/2006 12:07

there is also the "innoculation" approach. i rather hope that mild exposure to religion in childhood might innoculate them to later strong interest in it.... my mum takes them to church when they visit her. i don't approve but we don't have hundreds of people begging to have my 3 to babysit so we go along with it. and i reason that going to an average dull CofE church is enough to put any child off christianity
ditto school prayers i suspect. though they make me cringe.

Original poster
WigWamBam · 25/01/2006 12:09

I can definitely see your point on that one, fennel.

Oh, I don't know ... not sure what to do for the best with her really.

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Jasnem · 25/01/2006 12:13

I think I would find this a bit excessive, too. My DDs schooldoes "do" all the regular Christian festivals, but doesn't have daily prayers,
DD2 (5) has had alot more questions of a religious nature since starting school, and I find myself explaining most things by starting with "Some people believe...." which she accepts.

There is a child who is JW in her class who is removed, and the teachers found it difficult over Christmas, but as far as I know the other children hadn't even noticed. (Until very recently I was helping in her class, so I do get to see first hand what goes on.)