Does anyone remove their children from the religious bits at school?

[WigWamBam]

I am Pagan (for want of a better description), and although I would like to bring dd up to have an understanding of world religions, I don't really intend to bring her up with any sort of God in our lives. When she is old enough to make up her own mind then that's fine, but she's only 4 at the moment.

I'm getting a bit concerned about the amount of overtly religious stuff that she's getting at school. It's not a faith school, just a bog standard ordinary state primary. As well as the daily prayer and so on, she's now telling me about other things that have been happening and it seems that twice a week they have visitors from local churches, and the indoctrination has started. Yesterday they were being taught about the promises that God makes to us, and at one point she was asked to make a promise to God. I have no problem with her learning about what some people believe God is and what they believe he does, but from what she tells me this is being presented as undisputed truth, and it makes me uneasy.

I've talked to her before about God and about what certain other religions believe, but from an angle that this is what some people believe, but Mummy and Daddy don't believe that. Now she's being told (by people she believes only teach things that are true) that God is categorically real, and that she has to make promises to him.

I considered taking her out of the religious aspects right from the start, but was assured that it was only a daily prayer ... which is obviously not the case. I'm now considering it again, but I'm not sure whether it would single her out as being different if she wasn't taking part.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about religion, or whether I'm wrong to feel the way I feel; I just wondered if there's anyone out there who removes their child from the religious aspects, and what the upshot from it has been. I don't want my child taught that things we don't believe in are the truth, but then again I don't want her bullied if I take her away from it.

Kate F - I took it to mean all religions, not just Christian, ie it is all a load of guff and therefore offending all believers.

x

ah
well yes I see you might be offended by that if you believe it
but, we don't
I do find that strange really
I am NOT offended, EVER by Christians telling me what they believe
and I don't really understand why Christians should be offended by hearing what we believe

My parents are quite firm atheists. We had a tiny bit of school prayer at school, and were sometimes given bibles (I don't know why, as unlike here, Canada doesn't really have a state religion). My parents were incensed by all this.

I was sometimes taken out of school prayer (which was a few minutes in the morning). This really bugged me. I was very interested in the bible, and read it, as a form of rebellion.

Please complain to the head, try to get the situation changed, WWB, but don't pull your daughter out of bits of school, if you can avoid it.

(I am still a firm atheist. But DS1 starts at a CofE school in September. I will have to cope.)

KateF thats me. Sorry, that was a bit over the top and yes, as Harpischordplayer said -live and let live. It was a little tongue in cheek

"Frogs and Cristina..when did you realise the weaknesses of what you were being taught? (If indeed you did??) "

I can't remember, about 10, i think. Most definitely by 14 as then i had a v enlightened Romanian literature teacher who de-bunked a lot of that nonsense for us (he'd been thrown out of university teaching for similar views and "downgraded" to secondary school teaching.)

I think some of it has stayed with me and always will, e.g equality between men and women, religion being opium for the masses.

I read the bible of my own choice as a child, my mother is an athiest and was horrified to find out I was receiving a religious education.

I am not religious at all, I really do think it is more to do with parental beliefs than schooling.

It's not that it offends me personally, I am quite secure enough in my beliefs to withstand that but it doesn't make for good inter-faith (and I include agnostics/atheists) to express ourseves in such terms. It would be very interesting to hear the views of Muslim, Jewish, Sikh etc parents on this. Would those of you who object to CofE schools accept Christian faith schools that were community rather than state funded as I believe Muslim schools are.

Sorry, meant inter-faith relations

The state schooling in Scoltand is slightly different, in that the religious schools (in practice = Catholic schools, although I think there is one Jewish school) are themselves fully state funded.

So, for example, ds had two catchment primaries: the "ordinary" one and the Catholic one. And as it happens, the Cathlic primary is over 50% Muslim! There has apparently even been talk of turining it in to a Muslim school

Ds' primary (the "ordinary" one) is probably also round 60% muslim and so they do a very sensitive "education" of the various religions. SO for example he had a Chirstmas Assembly with a nativity where it was presented as "Some people beleive...." and they enacted the story. Similaryl he has just had an Eid Assembly, where they enacted the story of Babu the Burcher 9I wasn't there, so can't describe it in more detail).

I'm glad he is learning abut the different religions in the area in which he lives. He's not going to learn about it from home!

the thing is, though, atheism is NOT a faith. so sometimes it is hard to find common ground.
and I care not a hoot about religious schools, personally. it's the state funding I object too. and the lack of choice. strongly. other people feel differently though, I know.

schools, except religious schools (eg CofE, Roman Catholic, Muslim) should not carry out acts of worship as the pupils are bound to come from all different backgrounds. They should however teach all the major world religions in an educational enviroment.
I would certainaly go for a chat with the head and explain your anxieties.

Well surely KateF we should be able to discriminate against religious families and run aethesist schools? The entrance requirements would be difficult to enforce - the local faith leaders having to confirm that they have never seen person X darken their doors.

So maybe not. If groups of christians run schools for themselves - no problem. But why do you need christian schools in particular in this country. You go to church, you live in a christian community, you have christian parents - why does it need to encroach on schools.

Lets be honest the real reason is do with middle class parents being able to use the system to get the best state schools for their kids. Its got little to do with religion - bet if the local state school is better than the c of e school across town you would choose the local. After all they don't teach devil worship in normal schools??

No it isn't HC but shouldn't it form a part of any debate on education?

PB you are lucky - my DDs primary school is strictly CoS and includes very little diversity. The Scottish Equivalent of a 'WASP', is what I need.

Devil? I thought his name was Bush? sorry!

Awww, bless!!!

Well harpsi (hope you are ok with shortening your name) I can see where you are coming from as regards state funding for one faith over another. I think there will always be a debate as to whether those who follow a faith should have the choice of a faith-based education just as you should have a choice not to. But why should two schools, both state-funded, one CofE and one not, not provide a choice. You seem to imply that a CofE school is automatically the better choice.

BTW I chose not to send my dds to the local CofE school because it was not the best choice for them in terms of their particular temperaments.

I am having such fun and sorry WWB for hijacking your thread. But hopefully there have been enough aethesists with their opinions to give you some food for thought.

Have to go now - bye, bye - KateF, you sound lovely by the way.

there was a piece of news this week which i found interesting. all faith schools take significantly lower percentages of children with special needs, children on free school dinners (the main marker of poor households) and children from asylum seeker or refugee families.

which does rather bring into question the charitable or religious ethos of these schools, i feel. most of the religions i can think of advocate support for these groups, yet the schools run in the name of these religions don't adhere to this.

Sorry am back - but you had the choice of the C of E and another. If I am not a christian I only get the choice of one.

It might eat up their extra funding! (trip, Trap)

Yes there was a very good article in the guardian which highlighted that point.

Klauz-it has been a good discussion hasn't it
Fennel - isn't the point that faith schools select on the basis of faith not social deprivation.

well selecting young children on the basis of their parent's faith may be one way of doing things but i can't see that it actually adheres to a sense of social responsibility and caring for the less fortunate in society, such as christianity, say, advocates

Lacrimosa - I wasn't aware of extra funding but if it comes from the church isn't it up to them what they use their money for?

In Scotland , religious schools get extra funding from the scottish executive, I have a big problem with that.