Does anyone remove their children from the religious bits at school?

[WigWamBam]

I am Pagan (for want of a better description), and although I would like to bring dd up to have an understanding of world religions, I don't really intend to bring her up with any sort of God in our lives. When she is old enough to make up her own mind then that's fine, but she's only 4 at the moment.

I'm getting a bit concerned about the amount of overtly religious stuff that she's getting at school. It's not a faith school, just a bog standard ordinary state primary. As well as the daily prayer and so on, she's now telling me about other things that have been happening and it seems that twice a week they have visitors from local churches, and the indoctrination has started. Yesterday they were being taught about the promises that God makes to us, and at one point she was asked to make a promise to God. I have no problem with her learning about what some people believe God is and what they believe he does, but from what she tells me this is being presented as undisputed truth, and it makes me uneasy.

I've talked to her before about God and about what certain other religions believe, but from an angle that this is what some people believe, but Mummy and Daddy don't believe that. Now she's being told (by people she believes only teach things that are true) that God is categorically real, and that she has to make promises to him.

I considered taking her out of the religious aspects right from the start, but was assured that it was only a daily prayer ... which is obviously not the case. I'm now considering it again, but I'm not sure whether it would single her out as being different if she wasn't taking part.

I'm not interested in getting into a debate about religion, or whether I'm wrong to feel the way I feel; I just wondered if there's anyone out there who removes their child from the religious aspects, and what the upshot from it has been. I don't want my child taught that things we don't believe in are the truth, but then again I don't want her bullied if I take her away from it.

WWB - there is one child at dd1's primary school who is taken out of assemblies for religious reasons. I'm not sure what religion the family are but are obviously non-christian.

DD only mentioned it once and didn't seem to think it was a big deal - as far as I could tell the boy didn't get picked on or teased over it.

Dh and I are agnostic/atheist and would feel the same way as you over this issue but I wouldn't go so far as to removed dd from these sessions. Dh actually feels much more strongly about it than I do. He was brought up as a Catholic and went to Catholic school and is now the fiercest athiest you could meet. My view is that no matter what children are taught when young, they will almost always make up their own minds once they are adults and can reason for themselves.

DD1 knows that dh and I don't believe in a god and we actually have some good discussions about various religions and what different people believe so I am hoping she will grow up with a balanced view. She already knows that not everything she is told is school is true (even teachers can get things wrong!).

I love this thread! what a great topic! I have to go and get kids but I would like to say, I would love school to have RE and no RO but because it cant manage that my ds has to learn instead of listening to the brainwashing, I wish it was a lot easier, I see the headmaster hide under his window every time I pass by! I like it that way! he know I dont mess arpound!

Me too HC - have some friends who have converted after an Alpha course and I just aviod the subject, if they will allow me too. But it has also alterted them from the people we met at Uni and became friends with and it is only matter of time before I begin avoiding them TBH. Not an option with your sisters thou'.

sorry not read all threads but is there something in curriculums for none religious state schools as to what they should be covering about faith etc?

WWB it might be worth talking to the school about what they should be doing and whether they are approaching it right.

I have taken our ds and dd out of the Nativity at Nursrey (I and the children are Jewish, dh is not). The compromise was that ds/dd wore fancy dress and sat with staff in the audience, then got up on stage to join in the secular singing.

I explained to ds, the one year that he asked, that the Nativity was a Christian thing, and that we were not Christians. He accepted it.

I absolutely agree that, living in a Western culture, our children should know about Christianity. However this is a multi-cultural society and our children should aslo know that Christianity is not all there is. I would strongly object, for example, if they were to be told that our legal system is based on Christianity - which many people seem to think.

But if you have a different perspective - present it! Don't leave all the education to the teachers. I have gone to nursery and to ds's Reception class to tell them about Jewish festivals as they happen, and to my astonishment, ds tells me that I have been the only parent to do such a thing so far.

If you live near Glasgow St mungos museum is a must! it has all faiths and religions displaid inside and is brill for re!it is one of only 6 museums that are devoted to this in the world!

I'd love to rpesent my beliefs prettycandles but the school has refused my offer . I am hoping to train as an RE teacher too, so it would have been useful for all of them. Apparently, they don't want the kids elarning about false religion.

I have rto admit that I have nver got round to visiting St Mungo's Museum

.... and am pleased that the Dali is moving back to its rightful place in Kelvingrove when it re-opens!

(for non Glaswegians - it is a painting of Christ of St John on the Cross, looking down on the world and is brilliant, even if you don't particularly Dali)

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I won't take the children out (usual reasons - don't want them to stand out etcd) but luckily my son's primary was castigated by Ofsted for not providing enough worship - yay, way to go!
I would despair to think of my children's head being filled with superstition.
Of course I want them to know ABOUT Christianity, I just don't want them to be told it is true and have not qualms about telling them that all religion is just made up stories. Just as I read the Greek myths to ds and happily tell him that they are just stories.

And before the religious folk start reeling in shock, I honestly do not think it it is any different telling ds that all religions are unreal than telling him that only some are unreal, which is what religious people do!

Lacrimosa, I have no faith as such. I like bits of Taoism, Paganism, Shamanism ...but really have my own personal brand.

No I like ds to have a knowledge of everything I am fairly spiritual and do reiki etc and my son is well aware of alternatives to organised religion so I hope he will make his own mind upi as he grows up

I'm even considering taking my children to church now and again, even though I never go, so that they can have the choice. To me it's just as interesting, educational and informative as taking them to a museum or the theatre say. I don't understand why we have to be so polarised.

But Aloha, can you see that while I accept that you wish to tell your ds that all religions are made up stories I equally do not wish to and that neither of us should have to worry about what the school are telling them,i.e. it does not belong in school.

Although this thread has digressed somewhat, I hope this is of some help, WWB.

It sounds to me as though the RE / RO is being confused and being done badly. In no way shape or form should RE be taught as fact. Some things can be - for example that there was a man called Jesus who lived about 2000 years ago - this is commonly accepted by all scholars on the subject, but beyond the basics it should be taught as beliefs (but not just as stories either, equally problematic). Visitors to the school must never say something is true either, they must only say what they believe. However, when RE is often done badly it is the AO2, learning from religion that means that teachers think they must teach the religion as fact so the children can do the Ao2 properly. But this is not so, this aspect is just making the students ask existential questions themselves, and considering whether any religious action could have impact upon their lives. Often it is the ethical side that is most related.

However, RO would accept God as stated. Again, as people have already said, it is a school's duty to perform an act of worship every day. I disagree with this, but there you go. All I can suggest is that you insist that your child is not forced to 'pray' but has the right to remain respectfully silent. Otherwise, threaten to remove her. This is a right pain in the backside, so I suspect the school will do all they can to avoid this if no other child has already been removed.

I would speak to the head, and try to communicate that you have concerns about the way it is being taught. No one (rational) should have a problem with Good RE. Good RE should be about teaching children what other people believe and getting them to think for themselves. I'm an atheist/ humanist and I teach it and if done well, then I think it is a very worthwhile thing for students to do. Unfortunately few primary school teachers are RE trained and so often do it badly... often down the death by festivals route!

But I shall get off my high horse now, and say any further questions just ask!

WWB, if my children lived in a country where they went to school and taught that god was not real, that there were many different religeons and still god was not real but there are lots of ways to celebrate the unrealness of the god then i would be upset too

i tried to make the above my equiv to your situation.

i think that i feel as strongly as you - but in the opposite way. so in your situation ( or my opposite situation above) i would not hesitate in removing my children from being taught something i believe stongly to be untrue.

the difficulty comes with socialisation and isolation from classmates.

maybe you can speak toschool about integrating this sensitivley - so some kids go out for reading help, your kid could go and be library monitor or hel in reception or something whilst the religious part of the day is discussed - rather than the teacher bluring " right wwbkid, out you go - sit in the corridor - take a book, come in after break" this would be more damaging than her being seen to have a task to do by classmates

hope this has been of some help.

One person's education is another's indoctrination.

Isn't this the key to the woes of the world generally??

giddy1 - Yes, if the school approaches it that way. But if every time a Christian occasion comes up (and on a more-or-less daily basis outside celebrations) it's presented as fact by authority figures within the school, while when other religions' celebrations come up they are presented as "here's a nice story about how such-and-such celebrate" then it's just isn't going to work that way.

I really hope that there aren't too many schools that operate that way, but from the experiences of other parents on this thread there seem to be quite a few. When one particular religion is being presented as fact then it strays over the line and stops being learning about the beliefs of people who do have a faith, IMO.

I agree with many on this thread that religion should be kept firmly out of schools.

A good point, Custardo. Although, of course, a school should not state either way whether God exists or not - each child must decide that for his or herself... Unfortunately this is rarely done well!

Kate F, I agree. I think you should be free to tell your child that your religion is true, and I should be free to tell my children that no religion is true, and schools should butt out! Unfortunately, the church lobby, for some reason is very strong in schools and children in state schools get taught that Christianity is true (via daily worship) which is clearly wrong.

Moondog, taking the example that the OP gave (her dd being told that she had to make promises to God), can you tell me where the "education" about Christianity is in that? WWB said she is happy for her dd to be educated about Christianity and other religions but she is not happy with her being taught that one religion is the truth. You are missing the point that many people have made, that teaching about religion is a completely different thing to teaching that it is an absolute truth.

I do hope that WWB got some answers to her question from this thread.

I agree that there should be control on this. RE is good: what people believe is important, and probably for the majority of people on this planet their lives are governed by their religion and religious practices, you can't operate in a global society without an understanding of this. But that is very much the contect in which it should be taught. I doa lso think it's important to teach, as not teaching it can only exaccerbate racism and intolerance.

I also understand that in a Church school it will be taught as a fact. BUT there should be some recognition that not all the aprents ahd an option over the school their children attended. Also, when my kids come home and tell me that God created the world and Darwin was a bad man, then I just get .

Annie,I clearly understand the point.
What rankles is I feel an urge to reject thoughtlessly the mores of our society in an urge to be liberal and free thinking and individual.
Rather like 17 year olds wanting to wear politically provocative badges. Fine at a certain age/point but tiresome thereafter.

Maybe the answer is schools which have aclear mission statemnet.
Don't get me started on people who want to send their kids to CofE and RC schools but want to pick'n mix the bits they do and don't like.

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