Nightmare relationship with own mother

[Iggy]

Anybody else out there who really does not get on with their own mum? How do you cope ?
I decided to put this up after a comment my husband made today.
I have had a bad relationship with my own mother since the day I could remember. Dad died when we were young. I am the oldest. Was always a really rebellious child, with a mum like a sergeant major, Hardly spoke to her after I left home. The only way I could cope was to put distance between her and me so I left home.
Eventually went to work abroad. I still do the once a month or two phonecall or email thing and we pretend everything is Ok ( usually call when we know the answer machine will be on so can leave a message instead of having to speak to each other.Email is great for this! Ony did this so I would not loose touch with my sisters who were 11 and 12 when I left home. I was 22)
Have been married for 6 years now ( mum was not invited to the wedding cos I was sure she would make a scene and upset my wonderful mother inlaw, esp after the way she screamed down the phone at me whe I told her I was getting married.) Have 2 boys now, aged 3 and 4.5. Dh wants them to have a healthy relationship with all family so we take them back to visit once a year, and pretend all is wonderful, play happy families for a day or two visiting grandma in London and then its on to see my dh's family who are wonderful.
But recently, my mum suggested she come out to see us for a week. ( never believed she would ) and i developed permanent PMT ( my dh's words ) for the 2 months prior to the visit. She cancelled a week before she was suposed to come the the relief I felt was unbelievable.!!!! At this point my husband said " you really need to cope with this, she cant do anything to you, and you cant always live on the other side of the world to her, you know? What will you do when we eventually get moved back to the UK?"

Thats my problem in a nutshell anyway. My background is Asian, but I grew up in London. Left home, then joined an internat company, enjoyed a good career, first in the Uk and then overseas, for 11 years before getting married to a wonderful " white boy", (sorry if I am being un- p c.)My much younger sisters do get on better with my mum cos she became less harsh after I walked out at age 22 with one suitcase and 64 pounds in my pocket, and no job in sight. Never went back to sleep even one night at her house.

Trouble is I actually cant forget the harsh times as a kid. I feel if I make "friends" with her (even for the sake of my sons ) it would be like saying those years did not matter. Well they did matter and I still have a lot of resentment. I am now nearly 40 and feel that maybe I am behaving like a resentful teenager when I think of my mother but how do I move on? Sometimes I catch myself disciplining my sons and I think "Oh GOD I sound like her"
Arrghh, have just read this...and it sounds really garbled and jumbled. Thats cos if i actually take time out to think about what I am going to say i will change my mind and not post this.....I dont normally shout out about this, its usually just something in the background.. only my husband and my long standing best friend know some of the details ( though I suspect the wedding guests were wondering a bit... ) so here goes.

Iggy. Although I do get on with my Mum, my dh does not have the best of relationships with his.
I remember reading an article on this subject a while ago, and it was all about realising that it is Ok to not love you mum. You don't have to get on with her just because she is your Mum.

You have ovbiously had a tough time, and I'm sure you haven't told us the half of it. Your Mum must be aware of the hurt she has caused you - is she trying to build bridges?

I don't know what I'd do if I were you but I'm sure I would also not want to 'make friends' with her. I would want her to realise tht the past couln't just be swept under the carpet.

Only you know what is best for you and your family, and i hope it all works out.

Iggy my mother and I just do not get on. We clash so much. And TBH the thought of me even turning out like her knocks me sick.
Dont get me wrong she has no bad vices or nothing. She is a good woman.Extremely loyal.
What I dont like about my mum is she is never satisfied with nothing.She is bloody hoity-toity too, and that is a trait I just dont like as it reminds me of her.I have stopped all contact with her and my father (even barred their number on my phone)so I can get on with my own life and my OWN families. It was after a family row and they just went too far
Iggy all I can do is sympathise with you. But remember the most important thing in your life is your husband and children, focus on them and forget about other peoples attitudes (family or not)I hope this helps in some way.Cyberhugs to you.

Iggy, I really do feel for you. My mother was a raging alcoholic and most of the time a complete b*h. She brought us up to pander to her every whim and never to bother her with any problems we might have. As a result I went on for many years choosing partners who would treat me as she had, I associated love with a challenge, and never vocalised my own needs as I thought no one wanted to know. I could not understand why I lurched from one bad relationship to another until I became severely depressed and had a long course of therapy. This helped me to understand everything much better and value myself enough to choose a much better man, to whom I am now married.

I often feel resentful that her bad parenting caused me to spend so many years of my life in miserable circumstances. But I have also some compassion for her. She had a rotten childhood too, evacuated during the war to a home which sounded nightmarish. Her parents split during the war and she went home to find a stepfather she did not even know. I love my father but he can be difficult and selfish and she had to live with that.

I feel a strange mixture of compassion and annoyance - I feel that however badly she was suffering she should not have taken it out on her children. But I wouldn't have wanted to be her.

Unfortunately she died ten years ago, and this makes it easier to come to terms with the complicated feelings. It is difficult for you when you may find a kind of peace one minute, only to have her phone you and upset your equilibrium all over again the next. But the other side of the coin is that I can't talk to my mum any more, and I can't get answers to all the questions inside myself. You can still do that, if you think it would help. I entertained thoughts for a while about trying to explain everything to my dad, since he tends to gloss over most of it, saying , 'she wasn't that bad'. (Just wishful thinking on his part, I'm afraid.) I have thought long and hard about telling him how it really was when he was out, and how let down I felt that he did nothing to stop her cruelty, but in the end I decided that if I did do this he would probably never really get it, and I would be hurting an old man for nothing.

If you come to the conclusion that you will never be able to cope with a deeper relationship than you have now, it would be better to keep things as they are rather than put all that pressure on yourself. If she wants to come and stay, and you feel you just can't face it, you had best tell her that you don't have enough room or something. I am sure she will get the hint.

I am so sorry you are having to deal with this. I find when I have difficulties with my children I don't have any points of reference by thinking about what mum would have said or done. There have been times when I would simply do the opposite of whatever she did! But friends and other family can help, and the other mums on mumsnet are very supportive too.

Iggy, I feel for you. I have a great relationship with my mum, and almost none with my father who was a fairly unpleasant, controlling and walter-mitty-ish character growing up. He lives abroad and I see him maybe once every 18mths or so, and speak to him every 6 months or so. Which doesn't bother me - I've come to terms with it and in any event I'm so lucky to be close to my mother and siblings. But I was told one thing which really helped me when I WAS feeling guilty etc etc about my lack of relationship. I said to a friend that my problem was that I knew children should unconditionally love their parents, and I just didn't love him. She pointed out that it was parents who should provide the unconditional love to children, but they had to earn love back. He just didn't earn it - his problem, not mine.

I do think that is true.

So now that he is older, I accept a distant relationship, I don't drag up things from my childhood because what is the point? It won't help me to listen to him justify hitting me as a child (even if he admits it - as I said, he is very walter mitty and revisionist) - and to be honest I think he knows that he is lucky to have any relationship at all with me. We are just civil adults who are related.
I know it must be different and much worse when it is your mother in that position, and I do feel for you. Hope this helps in some way.

Best of luck.

I also have a difficult relationship with my mother. She is hyper critical (although she denies it) and nothing is ever good enough. She just seems to always undermine me in every way. Now she has started on my children, having a real go at dd a couple of weeks ago (according to her, dd is unacceptably naughty and we need to see a psychiatrist!!) I haven't been able to speak to her since and wonder if I ever will. She rarely rings me, not even on birthdays.

Your story sounds familiar Iggy - although you have been stronger than me in dealing with it. I've spent most of my life falling over backwards trying to get my mum to approve of me. Our wedding was just how my mum wanted it and I cringe to think back to it.

Interesting pph, that children should expect unconditional love from parents. That would be a radical idea in my parents' house. My mum wouldn't even help us with looking after our kids during dh's father's funeral (I was selfish to ask apparently).

Good luck, Iggy. You are not alone.

No, you're certainly not alone! I have been 'damaged' by my relationship with my mother. It is OK now that I don't live there any more, but I have never forgiven her. We get on as friends, but I don't think of her as a mother any more. She lost that right a long time ago. Our relationship is really weird, and can't be explained, but I spent a long time trying to make her love me in the way that I wanted her to, and it has taken a long time to realise that she does love me, but in her way. It's not enough, but I understand her more now, which helps.

No-one here can change the way you feel about her. We can only empathise. If you need to talk to someone unbiased, I suggest a counsellor. It really helped me understand my mum a lot better, allow myself to accept that I wasn't unloveable and to realise that she was at fault, not me.

Of course your previous years do 'matter', but can you move on from them, and try to build a friendship with her? Is she likeable? If she is, then maybe you would get on if she wasn't your mother - perhaps you could try to think of her as a friend rather than a relation. If you do, you have to be strong, and not let any comments hurt you.

You are definately not alone I have a very difficult relationship with my mother ,no time to go into now but many of the stories on this thread could be me.
I have barely spoken to mine for 2 years adn would happily leave it like that,I don't feel angry about the past but I am wary of letting her in agin to do the same things again,ridiculous to be afraid of a 60 year old women when I am nearly 40!Under haevy pressure from brother to "make it up" at the moment but for the first time in my life I am determined to do the right thing for me,dh and the children and not her;difficult though

Wow, Thankyou all you mums out there, I was not sure I would get even one reply, let alone so much support and sympathy and some really good advice.
Northerner - yes I think she is trying to build bridges and I must say she is very good with my boys when we go visit ( usually 1 day trip every year!) No critisism, only praise, always asks my advice about to cook for the visit etc etc. But I agree that I dont want to make friends with her. Unfortunately, I hope my boys dont pick up the underlying tension. I would die if my relationship with my boys got so bad that they felt the same way about me as I do about her. Its very reassuring to read someone else say its Ok not to love your mum. I have felt that way since I can remember but my husbands family ( Irish ) are very very close and my husband cant grasp the fact that my mother and I aren't, and never will be
PPh - you gave me so much food for thought. Interesting point about the unconditional love from Parent to child and but love must be earned from the child . I think it makes me more determined not to be anything like her when I have to discipline my boys.

Doormat - wow barring their number from your phone. I never had the guts to do thAT in the early years. I think your nickname should be doormat-NOT from now on!

Janstar - Our stories are so similar! My mother was widowed twice, first at age 21 when I was a year old, and then at age 33 when I was 16. SO I do feel sorry for her. All her inlaws treat her with open pity. She has had a really hard life and I would not want to be her for anything in the world. But that does not excuse the shitty way she treated me . my step father never interfeared ("anything for an easy life " ) and I
never respected him for it, esp when the bruises were evident and he never said a word, and I often thought "you're my new dad, why dont you protect me ?" when I was a kid ofcourse.

Chinchilla, she probably is quite likeable now, my other two sisters are both married ( with her "permission" of course, unlike me )and they and the husbands do get on with her very well.....maybe its just me.

Yes Philly, I am under pressure too, to make it up for the sake of my sons, but the thought does leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Every time we discuss her, I actually get bad breath!
my only defense mentally is to keep saying well despite her efforts, I am happy and have a stable life and a wonderful family, husband and two lovely kids, so I ahve WON!!!! and she has LOST. She once told me she would rather I stayed single and unhappy than be happy with " unsuitable" boy! This same unsuitable boy ( my husband of 6 years ) wants me to build bridges for the childrens sake so they only see normal relationships !!! Go figure!

Hi Iggy,
I had a very fraught relationship with my mom. Experiences not as bad as you, but my mother was ... weird. I considered cutting her out of my life completely at times. All my life she accused me of being selfish & unprincipled. She went on an alcoholic self-pity binge party for my wedding. She once blamed me for her divorce, reckoning I could have talked my dad out of it, and later thanked me for not talking him out of it because she'd still be stuck with the b***d. I can't remember ever liking her, although I respect many of her achievements. When she was divorcing my dad she carped on non-stop about him, driving all of his relatives away; then she bitterly complained how she didn't understand why they had rejected her after her being part of the family for 20 years.

Last Christmas we went to the city where she lives and spent a whole week with my dad without telling her (I have a cousin on my mom's side of the family who has done the same!). Because she would have fussed and gone emotional, and I just wanted a peaceful holiday.

I never resolved things before my mother died earlier this year. I think back to that week at Christmas when I could have had more time with her: do I feel guilty? Not yet. All I can think now is that we were very different people and could never understand each other.

You have extra problems with ethnicity which sounds like your husband doesn't grasp. Anyway, he can't know your mother at all & what she's like. I have a Singh friend who married a white chap. What's worse, she had to be spirited back by the UK govt. from an arranged/coercion marriage in Canada. Took her parents about 8 years to have contact with her again, and she still has to run out the back door if her grandfather or any of the "respectable" neighbours come 'round.

A couple of years ago I started a thread which you can find in the archives called 'Am I the only one with miserable mother?! or something like that.

This thread carried on for a long time and I realised I wasn't alone and this was a great comfort for me. My relationship with my Dad was crap and he died recently with none of the issues resolved.

Unfortunately there is nothing you can do about the past and your mother was probably parenting the only way she knew how to. Probably in the same way her parents treated her.

I have stopped making myself miserable about the situation with help from my Mumsnet 'counsellors'. My husband and my children are what is most important in my life now. I have realised that my mother will never behave in the way I hoped she will. She's never hugged me - stupid stuff like that.

We had a family function last week 200 miles away we stayed for the week and my Mum came up with us. I told my Mum I'd pick her up at 5pm to go to the function and she didn't turn up. She went out rambling and didn't come back. I then had to sit and make excuses for her behaviour. This is all because it was my Dad's side of the family and she is not interested in them.

My advice to you is to look forward to the future, a future that you can shape and decide for yourself. Make plans with your husband about where your lives are going, places you want to visit etc and do it. You'll be fine.

'Am I the only person with a miserable mother' is the name of the thread there are 151 messages on it so be prepared for a long read.

There are some very sad stories on there especially 'Hedgehog's. Perhaps you might get some comfort from reading it all through.

P.S When my Dad died in April my Mum did not show any hint of emotion whatsoever. Not even the night in the hospital when he was sat there in his last hour. It was the most horrible experience but she didn't shed one tear. They had been together nearly 50 years.

Zebra .. Thankyou for the words of encouragement.You seem particularly perceptive re the ethnicity bit. Asian mums are tyrants who rule their daughters with an iron fist. I feel for your Singh friend. And you sound like you have had a bad time with your mum as well. Interesting what you said about how you dont feel guilty about not resolving the issues with her before she passed away.....I would ditto that.

RRbud- thanks for the info re your old thread, I am off for a long read and then I will do some thinking and make a decision.You sound like you were put thru the meat grinder with your mum too. Atleast I am not alone ( and I feel normal re my negative feelings about her) with all this support.
You know, we have to study and qualify for every type of job in this world but when it comes to the most important - parenting, there are no compulsory requirements to fill are there....

RRB
Cant find the thread... ( !!) what am I doing wrong? Did a search, also listed archives and had a look. Pls can you give me some idea of which month and year?
Thanks
X

Ok, just found it.... Maybe I'll just rename my nickname to DIPSY!!!
XX

Isn't it amazing how many of us have troubles with our mothers ???? I do too....
Will we be like this with our kids or should I say will our daughters dislike us too ?
I am still at the stage where I crave for a relationship with my mother but I think she is not capable of it.... her new life (she divorced dad 10 years ago -to his complete shock and she has left him clinically depressed and for me to deal with! - they have no contact at all) is with a man who does not even bother to stick around in his house when I visit (and it is seldom as she lives in France)!... She always says she wants to help with the kids but she doesn't though she buys them presents (and ones they like a lot so 10 points)...

I am trying to tell myself it doesn't matter but I just want the ideal mother/daughter realtionship.... won't happen! And I feel very sad when my kids want to see Granny and talk about her with sparkles in their eyes as I feel they are loving her so much and she doesn't try to spend any one to one time with them... ever....

Sorry for the rumble... not tip for me iggy but lots of sympathy !

Pupuce I just make sure I will never act like her for my dd's to dislike me.Sometimes though when I am lecturing them I sound like her and I get all depressed and think S* I sound just like her
Perish the thought.

Funny how this thread started just as I, too, was feeling ambivalent (or worse) about my mother. She's less toxic than other mums described here, but still did her damage by (1) being unable to express sympathy or warmth if ever I was bullied, or had any problem, fear or sadness, usually adding criticism and annoyance to the original injury (2) being interested only in one thing: that I'd done better/achieved more in school/life than x or y's daughter or son. (Dad too.) (3) refusing to protect us against dad's alcoholic, explosive anger and sick teasing, with the excuse, "Children come and go, but husbands are forever." (In fact, she likes money and fancy cars and fur coats, and she knew she'd have less of all that if she left him) (4) refusing to let go of a 1950s style moral code which meant I wasn't allowed to live with/travel with/spend a night with a man until marriage lest her "friends" find out. Similarly, my brother, now 30, must keep the fact that he's gay a secret from their "friends" and community.

She had her good points, too, and of course we live in a more self-examining age; she may not have realised what she was doing. But still the wrongs feel basic and hard to forgive.

Zebra, I also liked your post. I've read your posts for a couple of years now, and "unprincipled" seems way, way off.

Message withdrawn

Iggy, generally my relationship with my mum is fine but to say there are no issues from the past would be a lie. I too am nearing 40 and still have flashbacks for no apparent reason to my childhood. My mum is irish and catholic and what the neighbours thought mattered to her. I am the middle of 3 and although know I am loved have always felt 3rd best. I didn't achieve academically as well as the others and am therefore not taken seriously. Anything I say compared to them is trivialised. I have just returned from her house now and we have had a row over her never asking my brother to peel potatoes about 20++ years ago for christ sake - she was in tears and so were my children - I never raised my voice so why the drama. If she would admit she wasn't always as fair as she claims she was I could live with it but she paints herself as the perfect mother, criticising my parenting and treatment of my dh!! I, as the daughter must accept it and she as the mother must never be disrespected or she will remind me of the sacrafises she has made over the years. I want an adult and honest relationship but I don't think she can cope with this. I don't want to make her feel guilty but not everything can be my fault can it???

You're DEFINITELY not alone. My mother is not as nightmarish as many on this thread but OTOH was, I think, the primary reason I spent many years incredibly unhappy and f*cked up and hating myself and convinced I was too fat and ugly in comparison to her to have a decent relationship.

She is a devoted grandparent, as is my father, so that for me has been a vehicle for communication - in no way do I forgive her/them, but I can put it behind in a way which I want to do mainly, I have to say, because they are now quite old. (And I do wonder how I will feel/behave when my mother dies and people commiserate with me about how wonderful she was, which believe me they will.)

Having said that, they're coming to lunch on Monday and I'm dreading it...

I can identify with a lot of these posts. My mum has always been over-critical & much like queenies mum, more interested in what the neighbours would say than anything I might be feeling. My brother has always been the blue-eyed boy & I have never felt good enough at anything. Even now, I have to behave the way she wants me to while he can do as he likes.

I realise that a lot of my worst character traits, particularly the way I react with other people, are a direct result of the way I was brought up, & it can be very disabling. The only way I "know" how to react is either very aggressive or very passive- neither of which gets results.

I have had a long course of Group counselling, which has helped enormously. I try to make allowances for her as she brought me up the way her mother brought her up. My biggest fear when we row is the guilt I KNOW I would suffer if she died tomorrow. My dad died 7 years ago with all our issues unresolved & it has been a nightmare.

just lately she keeps telling me what a good job I did with my kids. I just wish she could have said it when they were tiny & life was so hard, & she spent every visit telling me what I was doing wrong. The really annoying thing is she's always favouring my DD & treats my DS2 like s**t......

Thankyou Podmog, I will email a friend in the Uk to try and buy it for me and post it out. The other one I believe is good to read is called "Toxic parents" by a Dr Susan "Someone" I cnat remember the surname!

I wonder, some of the posts are from younger mums and others like Queenie are nearly 40 like me - but we all seem to have similar problems in attempting to getting over the past, and coming to terms with "toxic parents".
SInce this thread started, my thoughts have kept going back to the one line written by Northerner saying its Ok not to love your mum- you dont have to love her just because she is your mum. This coupled with the advice from PPH re unconditional love from parents but not the other way around, have really made me think that maybe I should just mentaly close this door and walk away. We can just be adults who are related ( advice in another post).
Oh Tallulah, I feel for you. Atleast I only have to see my mum one day a year. I think I would find it very upsetting if she favoured one grandchild over another - any reason for this? Have you spoken to her about this?

Motherinferior- good luck for Mondays lunch! What are you making ? Spagetti? My mum hates that cos its so undignified to eat.Hee Hee Hee Oooops sorry now I am being a b*h!!

What my mum will do is ostentatiously eat rather less than everyone else and leave a bit saying she really can't quite manage it (ie what coarse beings we are to stuff so). she's one of those small delicate Cultured Indian Women IYKWIM

It does help to hear so many others actually admit to having a bad relationship with their mother, as too often you hear "Oh we're like sisters......I tell my mum everything".

My mum has just been to stay and boy is it difficult. I won't bore you all trying to describe her but simply put I have one other Sibling, an older brother and the sun shines out of his a**.

He has no children and my dd being the only grandchild is obsessed about (she is a good grandmother, if a little ott). All my mum talks about is how dd reminds her of my brother when he was that age, and in short all funny stories of when we were little are always about him, never me. When I ask I get told in a jokey way "Oh you were a little cow sometimes".....that's it.

I have long since given up hope of having a better relationship with my mum.....as the years have passed she's never asked me the right questions at the right time and I am always made to feel like I am a dissapointment to her.

I have dealt with it in my way but it isn't easy and bad as she can be, I know there is worse. Advice if I have any is you can't bemoan a relationship that was never there in the first place, hard as that may seem.

My biggest fear is I have seen at first hand what hurt can be caused when she favours one child over another (she is a very intense woman) and the way she obsesses about my dd is beyond belief. Anyway I am now due another dd in a few weeks and I know she will favour dd1 over dd2. Then again what happens when the golden son finally has children.

How do we deal with the hurt they cause us and stop the pattern over future generations ????