Dogs on Nursery Property - AIBU?

[PearlsofHelp]

The nursery where my son attends is in a converted house, and you hand over/are handed children at a side door which leads into a small courtyard (behind a key pad accessed gate)

Handovers are done in this courtyard, and at busy times there can be 4 families in the same space.

Recently, more and more people have started to bring dogs with them at drop off/pick up and bring them into this courtyard. My 2 year old is terrified. One of the things he likes to do is to walk from the gate to the door himself, but he has to be carried if there is a dog because he’s so scared, so I’m handing him over is a stressed state which is not an ideal way to start the day.

I sent an email to the nursery manager raising my concerns,

“I hope you’ve had a lovely week.

I just wanted to raise something that’s been on my mind. (My husband) mentioned that there was a dog in the courtyard this morning during drop-off, and unfortunately, (my son) had to be carried in as he was too frightened to walk past it. This isn’t the first time it’s happened, and I know it’s something he’s really anxious about.

I also worry a little about pick-up times, when dogs are in the courtyard and children are coming out of the building. With the natural hustle and bustle, and adults often focused on handovers, there’s always a small risk that a child might approach a dog in the wrong way, leading to an unintended incident. Of course, that would be distressing for everyone involved.

I completely understand that many families walk and bring their dogs with them, and it’s a tricky balance to strike. I just wanted to share how it’s affecting (my son), in case there’s anything that can be done to help make drop-off and pick-up feel safer and more comfortable for everyone.

Thanks so much for your understanding.

Best wishes,

The nursery replied, a whole week later.. and said “I understand the concerns raised in your email and that (my son) was unsure about coming into the nursery because of the dogs in the courtyard. We don't actively discourage family pets coming to nursery, but I will use the weekly sheet to remind all owners of the need to keep pets under control (on a lead) while on the nursery premises. During handovers, the staff are always aware if their is a dog within the courtyard and will always discourage the children from touching the dog unless approval has been given by the owner and the child is alongside an adult”

I replied again

“Thank you for your response.

I really appreciate your explanation, but I do remain concerned about the presence of dogs in the courtyard during drop-off and pick-up times.
As I understand it, a core principle of any robust risk assessment is to eliminate risks wherever possible. In this case, it’s difficult to see how the presence of dogs provides a benefit that outweighs the potential risks to the children.
Dogs are routinely excluded from school sites, including (Our) Village School, and public playgrounds for very similar safeguarding reasons: to protect children from distress, accidental injury, or unpredictable behaviour.
I’d be grateful if you could confirm whether a formal risk assessment has been carried out specifically addressing this issue, as that may help provide some reassurance in light of my concerns”

She replied

“Currently, we do not have a formal risk assessment in place for dogs in the courtyard”

On the weekly sheet which is like a newsletter to parents it said “we love to see your pets at drop off/pick up but please keep them on a lead”

This felt like almost permission for people to bring dogs which I wasn’t thrilled about.

To me, having dogs in an enclosed space with no risk assessment, with children who are 9months-4years feels mad.

I’m not anti-dog by any stretch. We had dogs growing up and are very much “dog” people.

Their response has made my question myself. I am being unreasonable?

The nursery have made their position clear. So you need to decide whether you want to change nursery, it might be worth speaking to some other local nurseries to find out what their policy is. My DS was also very scared of dogs when he was little, once he met a really lovely, calm dog, belonging to a family member, in one afternoon he totally changed and said he wanted a dog on our drive home! That’s kids for you. Perhaps try this. Good luck.

She’s doing this. Her son is getting more comfortable with her in laws’ dog.

The issue isn't that the OP child is scared of dogs, the issue is that there are small children being put at risk.

If you are not happy with the nursery, for whatever reason, you need to change nurseries.

Agreed. There’s a reason that the vast vast majority of primary schools don’t allow parents to bring dogs into the playground. Even primary schools that have a school dog/dog that comes in for children to read to etc don’t allow other dogs at drop off/pick up.

Do you always think your opinion is the one right one in real life or just online?

Causing disruption to the child, when they are presumably otherwise happy at this nursery, rather than making a reasonable request that a nursery is kept a safe space for children? Yes, the world has officially gone mad when it comes to the rights of dogs!

I am a dog owner and also would not find this acceptable.

Dogs should not be in any form of school playground, especially a nursery setting where children are only just learning boundaries.

A local nursery to us used to allow this, until one day, someones dog bit a parent, dogs were then banned as they rightly should be and always should have been.

I would never tie my dogs lead to a fence or hook either, in my opinion that also poses the same safety risks.

The point of a risk assessment isn’t to eliminate risk OP, it’s to reduce it to a manageable level. Though it would be better if that risk assessment actually existed!

Do you think your child’s fear of dogs is a permanent state, or something that can be worked on over time with positive experiences with dogs?

Imposing dogs on children who don’t want to be in contact with them is selfish in the extreme.

The OP has raised it with the nursery, the nursery isn't changing its position. The owners of the nursery are allowed to make that decision.

Just as the OP is allowed to move her child if she is unhappy with the nursery.

If enough parents move their child then no doubt the nursery owners would change their mind. But if they are full despite this approach then why would they change?

It is to eliminate all risks that are possible to make it as safe as possible.

There is no need for children to be in the courtyard with dogs. If a child was bitten the nursery would be as liable as the dog owner.

This will be solved if a parent joins with an XL bully/other large dog.

Because child safety is everyone's responsibility.

Would you report it if you knew they were employing staff without DBS?

By all means report it.

As far as I know this is a decision the nursery owners can make. They have made their decision. Either accept it or walk, just as you can with 101 other decisions they can make.

The OP needs to choose the best childcare for their child. There will be 101 factors in deciding what is 'best'. They have no obligation to this nursery, and this nursery has no obligation to change their policies to please the OP.

Most nurseries don't allow it either. Ours didn't, which was entirely its prerogative. This one does though and so now the op has a choice. Live with it or leave.

I don't go into areas ddog isn't allowed when she's with me. I certainly don't avoid areas where there are children with her. I'm past school runs but she came on these too and we waited across the road. She had a little fan club who loved seeing her. No way would I have tied her up and left her to deal with interactions on her own. I'm there to guide and supervise and step in if needed.

I never once suggested imposing a dog on a child that doesn't want to be in contact with it. If you read my message I said the owner can keep the dog away from the child.

Do you always avoid answering the actual question when you can't justify your position?

I'm not sure how many times I can say the same thing.
In my opinion, tying a dog up by a gate with no owner is less safe than an owner being with it.
Appreciate your nursery has a wide gate, but not all of them will do!

And my response to that was if your dog can't be trusted in that situation, then why are you taking it to the nursery in the first place.

My dog can be trusted but if she's alone at the gate and there is a nervous child, I can't move her away. But I can if she's with me.

So then she can't be trusted, because you need to be with her? All I'm saying is animals can't be trusted, which is proven time and time again, because they are animals and so have no place in a nursery setting as OP has described. It's an accident waiting to happen. And surely you have to admit, that even if your dog is ok, you can't guarantee all the other dogs are? Which is fundamentally the problem.

She can be trusted but I can do something to remove her if there is a nervous child. But not if I'm not with her.

If you believe animals can't be trusted, why do you think it's ok to tie them up at a nursery gate?

Again as I said earlier, because you can have a wide berth and if the gate is narrow then tie it up elsewhere. Or hey, here's a concept, don't bring it! Why does your dog trump the kids who go to the nursery?

My dog absolutely doesn't trump kids at nursery and if I ever felt like there was any issue, I wouldn't bring her. Hopefully that clears things up.
Have a good day

How do you know there isn't an issue? I HATE dogs at the school gates, but I have not confronted anyone about it because dog nutters are just so entitled, and I know it would impact my son if I was known as 'that mother who doesn't like dogs'. I have spoken with several people who also hate seeing dogs at the gate, so I know I am not alone. This thread should tell you that too! Leave the mutt at home.