Dogs on Nursery Property - AIBU?

[PearlsofHelp]

The nursery where my son attends is in a converted house, and you hand over/are handed children at a side door which leads into a small courtyard (behind a key pad accessed gate)

Handovers are done in this courtyard, and at busy times there can be 4 families in the same space.

Recently, more and more people have started to bring dogs with them at drop off/pick up and bring them into this courtyard. My 2 year old is terrified. One of the things he likes to do is to walk from the gate to the door himself, but he has to be carried if there is a dog because he’s so scared, so I’m handing him over is a stressed state which is not an ideal way to start the day.

I sent an email to the nursery manager raising my concerns,

“I hope you’ve had a lovely week.

I just wanted to raise something that’s been on my mind. (My husband) mentioned that there was a dog in the courtyard this morning during drop-off, and unfortunately, (my son) had to be carried in as he was too frightened to walk past it. This isn’t the first time it’s happened, and I know it’s something he’s really anxious about.

I also worry a little about pick-up times, when dogs are in the courtyard and children are coming out of the building. With the natural hustle and bustle, and adults often focused on handovers, there’s always a small risk that a child might approach a dog in the wrong way, leading to an unintended incident. Of course, that would be distressing for everyone involved.

I completely understand that many families walk and bring their dogs with them, and it’s a tricky balance to strike. I just wanted to share how it’s affecting (my son), in case there’s anything that can be done to help make drop-off and pick-up feel safer and more comfortable for everyone.

Thanks so much for your understanding.

Best wishes,

The nursery replied, a whole week later.. and said “I understand the concerns raised in your email and that (my son) was unsure about coming into the nursery because of the dogs in the courtyard. We don't actively discourage family pets coming to nursery, but I will use the weekly sheet to remind all owners of the need to keep pets under control (on a lead) while on the nursery premises. During handovers, the staff are always aware if their is a dog within the courtyard and will always discourage the children from touching the dog unless approval has been given by the owner and the child is alongside an adult”

I replied again

“Thank you for your response.

I really appreciate your explanation, but I do remain concerned about the presence of dogs in the courtyard during drop-off and pick-up times.
As I understand it, a core principle of any robust risk assessment is to eliminate risks wherever possible. In this case, it’s difficult to see how the presence of dogs provides a benefit that outweighs the potential risks to the children.
Dogs are routinely excluded from school sites, including (Our) Village School, and public playgrounds for very similar safeguarding reasons: to protect children from distress, accidental injury, or unpredictable behaviour.
I’d be grateful if you could confirm whether a formal risk assessment has been carried out specifically addressing this issue, as that may help provide some reassurance in light of my concerns”

She replied

“Currently, we do not have a formal risk assessment in place for dogs in the courtyard”

On the weekly sheet which is like a newsletter to parents it said “we love to see your pets at drop off/pick up but please keep them on a lead”

This felt like almost permission for people to bring dogs which I wasn’t thrilled about.

To me, having dogs in an enclosed space with no risk assessment, with children who are 9months-4years feels mad.

I’m not anti-dog by any stretch. We had dogs growing up and are very much “dog” people.

Their response has made my question myself. I am being unreasonable?

I think Ofsted would definitely be interested in their lack of safeguarding especially as they’ve now put in writing that (a) they haven’t done a risk assessment, even after it was pointed out to them that they should and (b) they are actively welcoming dogs they don’t know into a small enclosed space, knowing both dogs and children can be unpredictable. What happens when a toddler decides to grab a dog’s tail as they walk past or stands on a paw?
I’m a dog owner and an educator but can definitely see the risks here regardless of your child’s individual fear.

YAB totally U!! The world does not evolve around your DC and their “fear”. You were unreasonable in your email to the nursery. If your unhappy move your child to another nursery. It’s not a safety issue.

I love dogs but there is a time and place for them. op has stated that the drop off/pick up area is very busy with multiple families coming at once. Having dogs there just adds to the confusion. If I ran a a childcare center I wouldn't want even one child to fear coming and going. I don't understand how the owner could be so nonchalant about the situation. I also wonder why some dog owners feel they are entitled to take their dog everywhere. I was at an outdoor music show recently and there were several dogs there who yelped through the whole performance .The owners were oblivious to the disruption to other people.

We’re talking about a nursery entrance! It’s not entitled to want a small area of the United Kingdom (which leads up to a nursery) to be dog free. Crikey.

I'd find a new nursery OP, and let them know why you are leaving.
That they can't see the risks around this speaks volumes to me.

You can have different rules for a nursery entrance versus a street. That’s the beauty of it. You can say no dogs in this small court yard . Dog fears are age-appropriate and very natural for young children.

I think you’re being reasonable OP, if there is another area that’s not in the hustle and bustle of nursery pick ups and drop offs then the nursery should do more. It sounds like they’re just trying to please the crowd.

I am a dog lover but there is a family who bring their dog to nursery, they do however keep it outside the gated area although much to close to the pedestrian entrance. It’s unruly, it barks for 10/15 minutes during pick up when its owner is out of sight. Not great for the other kids walking past it, no one can hear anything in the car park and it’s just senseless dog ownership. It seems some owners can’t hear their own dogs barks yet everyone else finds it annoying AF

I completely agree with you, OP, but the nursery has said loud and clear they won't change it. So I would be looking for another one. It's a shame but why should your son start the day in this stressed state?

It sounds like a similar set up to our nursery. I take my dog, many other parents do. I’ve never seen a single issue, most of the kids point out dog excitedly and that’s it. I have my dog under control on a short lead, there are parents and nursery workers overseeing the children. It is helpful for me as a working parent to be able to combine a dog walk with a nursery run. Obviously if the rules changed I’d respect that.

You raised your concerns politely and were answered politely. If you’re not happy with the rules, look elsewhere. I’d also look at what you can do to help make your son less scared of dogs as he does sound overly anxious.

Surely it’s a safeguarding if you’ve told them there’s a risk and they’ve told you nah we’re not going to bother with a proper risk assessment?
I imagine If a dog bit a child in the courtyard they’d get their asses handed to them!

I guess you could raise it as a safeguarding but be prepared for nursery to double down, I’ve seen some mumsnet threads where people have raised legitimate concerns at private nurseries and been booted out. So unless you know there are other local jersey places you’d be happy to go to… 🤔

So because people bringing dogs scare YOUR son everyone should have to cater to your son? Is that what you’re saying? Rather than simply teaching your son not to be afraid and bubble wrapping him from things he is going to encounter in life.

Yes you’re being entitled. Rude version is you’re coming over like an entitled Karen who expects the world to bend to your child. Polite version is that children do get anxious and as a parent, it’s our job to help them work through their feelings, as this is much better than expecting the world to bend. Even if there aren’t dogs there, you will find them in other settings. It’s a great opportunity to try and teach your child rather than rescue from a non-existent threat.

I say this as someone who doesn’t particularly like dogs either!

I am a dog owner but heartily sick of dogs being allowed eveywhere . I understand your concerns OP . Our local school does not allow dogs in the yard and in my opinion nurseries should be the same .

Dogs should’ve allowed in this area. Can they be left safely outside this courtyard space. It’s odd how they write ‘pets’ it makes it seem unthreatening but dogs can be unsettled near small kids and likewise small kids can be a disturbing to dogs.

Did the nursery put in writing that they haven't done a risk assessment?

All these people saying dogs are fine in the courtyard - does that include Rottweiler's, Bulleys etc?

I don't agree with it because it isn't fair on the dog, unfortunately owners are stupid and put dogs in situations that are unnecessary and risk their dog.

A child getting bitten is awful, for the child and the dog.

Yanbu, my kids LOVE dogs but dd's nursery used to have a similar set up where it was a tiny space/people were getting jostled and it would be too easy for someone to trip over a dog. Only a couple of people brought their dogs in but there really wasn't the space and it cant have been nice for the dog being overcrowded

how would you feel about doing a little exposure therapy with your child and a known child friendly dog. I’m sure a dog owner would be happy to help, let him know they’re not scary.

YANBU and this would piss me off. Dogs should be tied and left at the gate, end of. That's the rule at my child's nursery.

Dogs are scary a quick Google

were 9,277 hospital admissions for dog bites in England in 2022-23

Dog bites are a leading cause of facial injuries in children, often requiring plastic surgery.

0-4 age range most at risk

I love dogs, much more than people, but it isn't healthy to think of them as safe cuddly toys.

@Isitreallysohard some dog owners. But I agree that many do not put their dog first. Taking dog into a small courtyard with unpredictable children is not in the interest of the dog.

Really the wrong mesage, dogs are scary and something to be treated with caution. I know so many people who have been bitten by dogs, including a 4 year old on the eye (by the neighbours friendly dog)

Sadly I'd say most dog owners. The considerate owners who also treat their dogs well and not like an accessory aee few and far between, certainly what ive observed in the last few years. This is what I mean and what I don't understand, I doubt the dogs want to be there either. How hard is it to tie your dog up and leave it at the gate. It's really boils down to being lazy.

Expecting a nursery, you know a place that is legally required put children's wellbeing first, to do (at the bare fucking minimum,) a risk assessment of having multiple dogs onsite is about as far from entitled as you can get, unless you're a complete fucking idiot. It's actually the bare fucking minimum.

If the dogs were off lead and out of control then you would be perfectly reasonable, but it so7nds like these are well-behaved dogs on a lead and you are doing your child a disservice and amplifying his fears by going to additional measures like carrying him past the dogs. It's fine for him to be cautious of any off-lead dog but dogs on a lead are part of everyday life. Work with your son with social stories and picture books to build up courage, before gradually helping him to learn that he is perfectly safe walking past a dog.