Dogs on Nursery Property - AIBU?

[PearlsofHelp]

The nursery where my son attends is in a converted house, and you hand over/are handed children at a side door which leads into a small courtyard (behind a key pad accessed gate)

Handovers are done in this courtyard, and at busy times there can be 4 families in the same space.

Recently, more and more people have started to bring dogs with them at drop off/pick up and bring them into this courtyard. My 2 year old is terrified. One of the things he likes to do is to walk from the gate to the door himself, but he has to be carried if there is a dog because he’s so scared, so I’m handing him over is a stressed state which is not an ideal way to start the day.

I sent an email to the nursery manager raising my concerns,

“I hope you’ve had a lovely week.

I just wanted to raise something that’s been on my mind. (My husband) mentioned that there was a dog in the courtyard this morning during drop-off, and unfortunately, (my son) had to be carried in as he was too frightened to walk past it. This isn’t the first time it’s happened, and I know it’s something he’s really anxious about.

I also worry a little about pick-up times, when dogs are in the courtyard and children are coming out of the building. With the natural hustle and bustle, and adults often focused on handovers, there’s always a small risk that a child might approach a dog in the wrong way, leading to an unintended incident. Of course, that would be distressing for everyone involved.

I completely understand that many families walk and bring their dogs with them, and it’s a tricky balance to strike. I just wanted to share how it’s affecting (my son), in case there’s anything that can be done to help make drop-off and pick-up feel safer and more comfortable for everyone.

Thanks so much for your understanding.

Best wishes,

The nursery replied, a whole week later.. and said “I understand the concerns raised in your email and that (my son) was unsure about coming into the nursery because of the dogs in the courtyard. We don't actively discourage family pets coming to nursery, but I will use the weekly sheet to remind all owners of the need to keep pets under control (on a lead) while on the nursery premises. During handovers, the staff are always aware if their is a dog within the courtyard and will always discourage the children from touching the dog unless approval has been given by the owner and the child is alongside an adult”

I replied again

“Thank you for your response.

I really appreciate your explanation, but I do remain concerned about the presence of dogs in the courtyard during drop-off and pick-up times.
As I understand it, a core principle of any robust risk assessment is to eliminate risks wherever possible. In this case, it’s difficult to see how the presence of dogs provides a benefit that outweighs the potential risks to the children.
Dogs are routinely excluded from school sites, including (Our) Village School, and public playgrounds for very similar safeguarding reasons: to protect children from distress, accidental injury, or unpredictable behaviour.
I’d be grateful if you could confirm whether a formal risk assessment has been carried out specifically addressing this issue, as that may help provide some reassurance in light of my concerns”

She replied

“Currently, we do not have a formal risk assessment in place for dogs in the courtyard”

On the weekly sheet which is like a newsletter to parents it said “we love to see your pets at drop off/pick up but please keep them on a lead”

This felt like almost permission for people to bring dogs which I wasn’t thrilled about.

To me, having dogs in an enclosed space with no risk assessment, with children who are 9months-4years feels mad.

I’m not anti-dog by any stretch. We had dogs growing up and are very much “dog” people.

Their response has made my question myself. I am being unreasonable?

It would have been easier just to say ”Yes”

The entitlement of dog owners knows no bounds.

@Scenic11 and nor does the entitlement of parents.

Agree with this - our nursery has the same arrangement. We lost our DDog 🌈 🐾 tail end of last year and I’m not ashamed to admit I like being able to give the doggos 🐶 waiting a bit of fuss (with owners permission!)

I don’t expect everywhere to adjust, but I’d say a nursery is somewhere that children should expect they can feel safe and have allowances made for their wellbeing.

I’m not taking him into a pub, it’s a nursery.

I am absolutely working on it with him, I’d rather this wasn’t an issue for him.. when we pass dogs in the street etc and he’s in his pram, I point them out and say “look doggy” and he’s absolutely fine and sometimes even waves. My in laws also have a dog and he will let her approach and sniff him etc if I’m sat with him on my lap which is great progress.

I’m just sad that he can no longer take a few steps across the courtyard because he finds it too intimidating, which was an important part of him settling quickly somewhere he’s been happy for over a year.

People didn’t used to do this, my older son also went to the same nursery so we’ve been doing the same drop off for the past 6 years, it’s been known the last few months that it seems to have become passively permitted, and now confirmed in writing.

It’s a NURSERY! It’s literally for children! The children are entitled to be in a dog-free space.

My dog is allowed in John Lewis. Still not ever taking him in there. It’s not appropriate.

I say that as someone buying a pram for my baby that’s compatible with my own dog!

Agreed. What does she mean they haven’t done a risk assessment? They aren’t just optional bits of paperwork to be ignored when you can’t be arsed.

I’d be rethinking the nursery tbh. Not specifically because of the dogs (although I wouldn’t love that and it would absolutely not happen at our nursery), but because of the “nah not bothered with a risk assessment” attitude. What else are they lax on because they’ve decided it’s probably fine?

You're not doing your son any favours by pandering to his fear.
I didn't see any mention of a reason for him to be scared so I'm assuming there isn't one.
Dogs are everywhere these days, he will need to learn to be around them.
Dogs should absolutely be kept on a lead but it sounds as though they are not doing any harm.

You don’t know anything about how I parent.

This also isn’t just about him. It’s about the safety of all of them, even the most confident toddler.

She’s not pandering. She’s said she’s working on it, including getting him used to his grandparents’ dog which he’s more comfortable with.

My 3 year old is fine with dogs but for no reason I can tell is terrified of cats. I don’t think forcing her to walk through an enclosed area with a cat she’s hysterical about would help. Pandering to her would be letting her refuse to go in at all. Making her walk through would terrify her. Carrying her through would be the compromise in the hope that she’d gradually get more comfortable.

And OP’s safety concerns apply even if her son isn’t scared of dogs. So it doesn’t matter.

Plenty of adults have fears which have no discernible origin. Phobias are by definition irrational. You can’t reason with a nursery age chipd
over something it’s terrified of. That’s not how emotions work.

If OP was complaining about a pet store or boarding kennel rather than a nursery, fine, but the poor child is allowed a safe space to get to his nursery, ESPECIALLY when there are some perfectly reasonable compromises the nursery just CBA to employ.

Personally, nursery are totally out of order - due to health and safety concerns and no risk assessment is unacceptable. Our children's school is a no dog zone, as is the local preschool as it's just not an appropriate environment for them, this nursery shouldn't be either.
Some children are frightened of dogs - it's not unusual and a child needs to be supported not basically told to stop being silly. (My DD was terrified of dogs because one grabbed a biscuit from her hand just as she was putting it in her mouth - she was walking but still young. We had to carry her past dogs or ask owners to walk past her pushchair at a distance/cuddle her til the dog went past. A few years ago we went on a walk with a friend and her dog and my DD played ball with him. She had come through the other side and we now have a family dog. My DD is fine with dogs she knows but is still a little weary with unknowns.)
People play down fear/dislike of their dog but it's a child's instinct to keep a distance. Please keep advocating for your DS.
Contact Ofsted as the regulator.

Are you seriously suggesting children and dogs are on a par with each other. That’s appalling. You should be ashamed of yourself.

Lots of people these days treat dogs better than kids so it's not surprising really 🙄

It’s upto the nursery really. I never saw a single dog at my sons nursery but I know another local nursery where the owner brings her dogs to work.

id say you either accept it and use it as a opportunity to work on your child’s fears or look for another nursery

Sorry but a sign saying no cats 😂. Who is this for? The hoardes of people bringing their cats with them to pick up their child or for the cat to read and say "oh sorry, I'll go elsewhere"

Do some dog owners understand why toddlers can be scared of dogs?

Dogs can be the same size as them. They are face to face with a creature that's panting etc, stronger than them and maybe had a bad experience with pushing them over etc. I'm pretty sure many adults wouldn't want to walk past a 6ft unpredictable animal.

I don't know what else you can do OP. I don't think the nursery will change their mind until a child is hurt (by being knocked over, not biting!). You've told them its having a negative effect. Only other option is finding an alternative.

Is there nowhere to tie the dogs up at a fence etc outside the nursery. You could make a complaint to the care commission as I would be concerned that dogs might be doing their business there as well and it would be unhygienic etc for the children

This.

No, at that age it’s not unrealistic. My 2 year old was terrified of gdogs even when we had a large and a giant breed at home.
And you’re right. Parents are entitled. Entitled to drop-off/pick up their children in safe circumstances.

it will all stop when a dog bites one of the kids.

You are being ridiculous. The clear solution is you teach your child to be able to walk a few step steps when there is a dog nearby (on lead), there are dogs absolutely everywhere and he needs to be able to this, it is literally an essential life skill. Picking him up or asking for dogs to be removed is not a long term solution.
What if he was terrified of umbrellas? Would you think parents waiting if the court yard shouldn’t be allowed to use them in the rain?

Saying there is a danger to the children is just laughable. It’s surely less dangerous than walking down the street as the dogs will all be on a lead and with their families. This is very over the top worrying about a total non issue

When my children were frightened of something I went out of my way to allay their fears especially if the ‘difficulty’ was one that they would often come across.

YANBU, given the ages of the children and in this particular setting.
It's completely inappropriate for dogs to be present at handover. I'm sure some of the dogs don't enjoy it either. It's not as though the dogs have to be left at home, restricting access to the gated area seems like a perfectly reasonable solution.
I would contact Ofsted. Nursery registration/regulation is strict and all procedures are scrutinised. I can't imagine Ofsted would approve dogs being present during handover, even on a lead, regardless of the personal preferences of the owner (and even if all parents were happy with it). Maybe ask the owner if Ofsted are aware and have given approval? You can request a copy of the inspection report and registration document.
In the absence of a satisfactory response, I would change nurseries.