Nursery unprofessional?

[Two2byTwo2]

A bit long winded so apologies in advance, I want to know if I am being precious or if in fact I have a point and also what I should do about it?

Daughter turned 3 late last year. She has been attending a private nursery since March last year for a few days as to not overwhelm and get her mixing with other children. With the view to increase her days when she gets 30hr funding.

Initially all the staff were great, couldn't do enough for us and were an absolute delight, they loved our daughter and it was going well.
Our daughter admittedly can be a handful, she is very tom boyish and boisterous. She has a lot of male family so she can hold her own. She went through a phase of biting, but we managed to head it off after a couple of weeks. However she has taken to scratching! This happens mainly at nursery and she can hurt other children (we cut her nails every other day). She does it at home on occasion but not often.
The nursery think she could be SEN / Autistic etc. We do not think she is at all, she's affectionate with most and she does recognise when people are upset. She often over loves if that is a thing, cuddles other children and doesn't listen if asked not to.

She can be stubborn, have tantrums, scream and imagine disruptive to the other children (is this not standard 2yr old tantrums?). Sometimes she does get overwhelmed with the childrens games/noises and can lose it a bit so she does require some time out, often with an adult on a 121 basis.

We've worked together with the nursery and come up with plans to replicate how they manage her so we are being consistent at home and nursery. We have set up reward charts at nursery and she enjoys that, it does help.

We know she is no angel but they've asked to refer her for SEN/Autism assessments which we've said no to as she is far too young to assess, they recommend about 6yrs for Autism.
I have asked to up her days to use the 30hr funding I enquired in October just after her 3rd birthday and said happy to wait for space as in no rush. However they have come back and said no they can't and made several excuses.
We are actually really quite upset at this as she's done so well, been there almost a year and formed bonds with the staff and children alike.
I feel that as they have made this diagnosis that she's SEN and claiming that it is unfair to others because of her additional needs when in fact I think it is that they dislike her and cannot cope with her behaviour? In my opinion this is poor on the part of the nursery that they're not willing to continue to support, and a shame for our daughter that we may have to start all over again.
Like I said at the beginning a long post and am I being precious?

I think you should agree to assessment? If anything, if there are no detected flags for autism or other SEN then it will be useful for you going forward. You’ve nothing to lose really.

She sounds very much like our 8 year old who is diagnosed with autism was at that age. I was the same as you, completely oblivious to it as it was just "her", and I felt like the staff were being dramatic and didn't like her.
In reality years later they were completely right.
Girls present very differently to boys, and also will often go one of 2 ways, they'll either mask well at school and show their struggles at home, or be calm in the comfort of their home and really struggle away from their parents.

There is a waiting list of around 2 years in most places, so a referral now would get her seen around when she's in reception which would be ideal for if she does need additional support to get the most out of school.

Also be aware that lots of women with autism aren't even diagnosed in our generation, it's not a big deal but support is always better than not having any.

What have they actually given as the reason for not taking the 30 hours?

@Scutterbug thank you.

I know the waiting lists are extremely long and there are people more in need of the diagnosis than we are, that was the method behind the madness. But you're right nothing to lose.
However so can the nursery refuse to take her on based on our refusal for the assessment with good intentions?

What is their reasoning? Do they feel she needs more support than they can offer?

I wouldn’t dismiss special needs. Biting and scratching at 3 is quite unusual (entirely normal for very young toddlers). It does sound like they can’t cope with her but private nurseries can pick and choose and it seems like they won’t or are j willing to meet her needs. On this basis alone it would put me off sending her anyway.

I think the bigger picture is they need to keep the other children safe. I work with pre-school age and this behaviour is not typical and would be concerning to me.
Are you trying to put a positive slant on things by saying she’s being affectionate? In all this there are other children being hurt and the nursery is probably struggling. Is she getting overwhelmed and hurting others due to this?

I would agree to the assessment and see if anything can be done to increase her hours but they might feel ill equipped to deal with her due to her needs.

@PillowRest that's good to hear, thank you for sharing your experience with your daughter. How long was it for diagnosis? What's the treatment etc? Hope she has settled now?
She has weeks where nothing happens at nursery and then we get a spate of attacks.

She sounds a little as if she is not recognising social boundaries in her physical behaviour with others, and I would take the nursery's advice since they will be fairly expert in recognising SEND. She is young to be diagnosed so I get your point on that. The nursery flagged our son for referral when he was 3/4 and he was diagnosed with autism at 5 when he started school and things became a lot more obvious.

Professionals have raised a concern. They are around children all day every day they are not making the recommendation for fun.

Your daughters behaviour individually sounds typical however the complete combination sounds typical of children who may go onto to be assessed as ASD.

By not engaging you are delaying support resources for your daughter. The nursery has to manage all the children's needs. If they feel she requires more supervision and may struggle without support at the next level then I feel that is fair enough for them to secure that or have an opportunity to work out a plan.

We know she is no angel but they've asked to refer her for SEN/Autism assessments which we've said no

I would imagine that the nursery are very experienced in knowing what’s typical behaviour in 3/4 year olds and if they have raised issues, you would be sensible to investigate them.

I feel that as they have made this diagnosis that she's SEN

There is no diagnosis as you haven’t agreed for an assessment.

I think it is that they dislike her and cannot cope with her behaviour?

It sounds like her behaviour is difficult to cope with, yes. In that situation, settings will look to external agencies for help and advice and consider applying for additional funding to support the child. If you are blocking this, you are helping nobody.

If you really think the setting ‘dislikes’ your child, by all means go to a different one. If they suggest additional support and a referral to investigate autism, what would you say then?

@purpleme12 they can't meet the needs of the other children and what our daughter requires in addition to that. They're having an influx of new funded children in also so that has increased the number of children.

Get the assessment, my dd was diagnosed at 2.5 with autism

@Scutterbug they can't meet the needs of the other children and what our daughter requires in addition to that. They're having an influx of new funded children in also so that has increased the number of children.

Just to add that they aren’t saying she isn’t a lovely, kind girl etc just that they need help with her needs.

I think most nurseries have a good understanding of what is typical in the wide range of behaviour for a 3 year old. I think you will always be bias that her behaviour is normal because she's your dd and you don't wish her to have any additional needs.

Their reluctance to increase her hours might be because they feel you aren't working in partnership with them. It's difficult when parents don't want to listen.

Also are you working? You only get funded ours if you're working

If she required frequent 1 to 1 attention from an adult, but they haven't got staff, what do you expect them to do? It wouldn't be safe to increase her hours. I'm not in the UK, so maybe it's different, but where I am they get extra funding for 1 to 1 staff if children have an official SEN diagnosis

Listen to professionals who work with kids every single day. It's won't be just one staff member opinion. They have reason to think she needs assessing and are saying she's outside of normal range. Picking it up early is best

Would you rather they accept her extra hours and struggle?

You are in denial. Listen to what they are telling you and go for assessment. A 3 year old doesn't have terrible twos!

OP I’ve only read your post.

Nursery are saying no because they can’t manage your child. They will have seen hundreds of children and will know what an average 3 year old is like. If their saying they have concerns then listen. They want to get your child in the right pathway so she can’t get the support she needs to succeed - why would you not want that?

As a teacher I strongly recommend getting her assessed asap. If she has a need and you wait until school, she will not be entitled to any support for potentially years. In a class with 29 children. Some will already have support for their need and she will find things hard.

Nurseries know what’s standard behaviour for a 3 year old and if they are telling you something is wrong I suggest you listen.

They aren't being unprofessional, they're doing their job! She isn't too young for an autism assessment, and if she is autistic then the earlier it's diagnosed the better. I understand that you are reluctant to consider it (I have an autistic child who was first picked up at nursery) but outcomes for children are much better if they get the appropriate support in place before they start school. If she doesn't have autism she won't be diagnosed with it, please be reassured on that.

Bear in mind that autism is MUCH more varied in presentation than has previously been believed, and in girls there can be very atypical presentations (in that to a trained expert there is enough evidence, but not much of the child's profile conforms to autism stereotypes or popular beliefs about what autism looks like).

Let them do what they are good at OP. It sounds as though they have your daughter's interests at heart.

@Mayjune11 my partner and I initially were thinking of pulling her out completely, but she has come on so much in the last year, it really has done her well. I am looking at other options but just wanted peoples opinions as I am probably just being precious, I think I am definitely misinformed about Autism diagnosis. However, so great to read the advice. That said if she is Autistic then pulling her out would not be the sensible option at this stage.

@1AngelicFruitCake haha no not trying to put a positive slant on it, it is just that I read that Autistic children do not show affection, but she really does.