Nursery shock report

[needmorecoffee]

anyone see this

Hi Elf.We are renting at the moment.

I was only wondering because I am in a position where I cannot not work because on paper we earn too much for help, and we have been trying to sell our house for a year but no joy, so at the mo I have no choice but to work

We are in the income bracket where dp earns just a smidge too much for help and not really enough to make the fact he stays away loads and drives alot worthwhile.WE receive zero help.and like lots of people worry about money sometimes more than others.

I mean sometimes we worry more than at other times

I work and study at the moment, when I'm qualifed I can work frelance which would be a help.

Yes that sounds good.Then you will have control over things I suppose.It is very hard.I wish [in ideal world]that a parent could stay at home without struggling financially.
I will prob go back to working the odd night shift.But at the moment dp is away at the drop of a hat and it is hard to plan things.He starts a new job soon so hopefully not away so much.I hope it works out for you

It is frustrating. A friend of mine had her first dd nearly 11 years ago and she and her dh were able to get a house through the housing associations (both living with their parents at the time), she'd been given help to stay at home, she now both of her girls are at school, they are getting help in going to work

DH and I brought our house, got married and planned for a child, and get no help, and even if we did sell, with the shortage of houses, we would not get anywhere. Renting privately around here is also more expensive than our mortgage!!.

Most poverty here is relative. I tend to feel that as long as you have above a certain minimum standard of living (decent home whether owned or not, heating, reasonable diet, activities for children etc) then anything above is an extra. I know we cannot totally seperate ourselves from society and it's expectations but for me I am very unmaterialistic and hopefully my kids will be too (not had teenagers yet though!!)

I'm not pleading poverty, just that I cannot get into a position where my house s reposessed or something, as that is just ruining our future

DloeufyDoo, when you say your dp earns too much for you to get help, do you mean tax credits? I'm confused.

Why has this "debate" turned into a working mum v sahm thing? Maybe that's the problem, everyone's so worried about either being guilt ridden or a bit superior that the real villian's - greedy nursery owners who are in it for profit not quality childcare (some, before anyone starts again) and target obsessed not doing the children justice OFSTED get away scot free, c'mon ladies, we can do better than this.

Hi chelsygirl.We don't get any help.We relocated to the republic of ireland a few years ago.But even when in uk didn't have the sort of help I think Elf was referring to.We pay for healthcare over here a trip to the docs is 45 euros.and at present we are not in a private healthcare scheme[these are popular over here]Some people I know can wangle the system and have medical cards which entitles them to free doctors visits and prescriptions.That is one example.That is 45 euros for adults and children over 6 weeks!
What I mean is...we fall between two camps[which i think many people do]Don't really earn enough to not have to worry,yet earn too much to receive any help.Loads of people are like this.
I am actually thinking of childminding!I want to provide great,affordable childcare for people..and it will fit in with my life.I used to be a paediatric nurse...though that is very different to being organised in the home with a couple of children to occupy and care for

I don't know if you'd be well suited to childminding. You have been remarkably judgemental about the parenting choices of others on this thread. How would you manage to hide your perception of the working parents leaving their children in your care?

oh dear doo, don't be a cm. You will be selling out big time. What values will your children pick up?

llareggub, loads of childminders feel the same as DloeufyDoo, thats why they choose childminding, to be at home with their kids instead of sending them to strangers, DD is just more honest about this as its an anonymous forum to post your real feelings in

and blueshoes, thats a very snide post, are you upset by this thread?

If I employ a cm, I would expect a certain level of professionalism and commitment to developing and nurturing the children she minds. Not just someone who does it because she wants to be with her children and can't find alternative employment.

After all, such a cm would be in a terrible position of conflict of interest between her children's needs and those of her mindees. As we know as mothers, there are never enough hours in the day.

A cm owes a duty to her employers to respect their way of parenting. A cm who secretly despises the parents who farm out their godgiven responsibilities (after all SHE moved mountains to be with HER own children and always put HER own children first) is temperamentally and morally unsuited for the job.

If she accepts money from this situation, she is a hypocrite and has compromised her high values. I don't see how such a cm can take the moral high ground ever.

There are many professional cms out there who have been in the job long term. Many are on mn. For others, best not to jump through ridiculous and (we know now) worthless Ofsted hoops when her heart is not in it and won't last long, not to mention the parents she defrauds and ultimately lets down.

blueshoes, what you expect and what you get for £3 an hour are totally different things

most childminders are mums who do it for the years their children are young, say before high school, as it fits in with their life and gives them extra income

I can understand the motivation for being a cm being wanting to be with your children. But dn't tell me all cms hold this view or put it in these terms:

Doo: "No it's not that.It's bloody depressing.Maybe we can't have it all.And for your info dp and I have taken it in turns to be at home over the years.
If you want to pursue a career go for it,put your kids last and kid yourself that you can have quality time with them when it suits you.but don't whinge when the nureries are shite..it's pretty obvious when they are.
Depends what ypou priorities are."

"I don't know anything about you or your life style but I will say that for us home owner ship,new cars etc are not important.Our children do not go without anything and are not being reared by strangers.We chose to have them.they are our responsibility."

So are parents allowed to whinge if the cm is shite? A cm has her own values and beliefs, of course. But if she cannot even comprehend on a human and empathetic level why other parents choose a different path which could work for Their circumstances whilst still raising happy and fulfilled children (with her help), then, hey, that is biting the hand that feeds you.

And I am putting it mildly.

The childminder who cares for my son probably does it to give her a bit of cash so that she can stay at home with her children. I don't get the feeling that she is constantly judging me however. She is very lovely and we have bonded over our similarly messy houses.

My original point was that I have a lovely childminder and I would not do anything different. This woman still is in touch which kids she was minding 15 years ago. She has pictures on her walls of the kids she looks after. MWhat more could I want?

I started going on about "help" financially with the point raised that parents should not be working and adjusting their lives to be at home to look after their children, and pointing out that it is not always possible, which is seen by some as an excuse.

I haven't read all of these posts, but I did watch the programme and my first thought was: 'Those poor children [in that Buttons nursery]- no-one deserves to be spoken to like that- how horrible and upsetting'.

My second thought was: 'Those poor parents who have their children enrolled in that nusery. They must be thinking "Wjat the hell do we do next?"'

The Buttons nursery is in Ealing and I live there too.

I was lucky enough to enroll my dd in a fantastic Surestart nursery with (relatively) well-paid and qualified staff and a fantasic philosophy. But I was lucky!

Just like in the rest of the country, the gap between need and provision in Ealing means that crap nurseries like Buttons have a full roll and are able to get away with having poorly paid and motivated staff while the owner drives round in a Bently paid for by the money he has extracted from the nusery.

Surely the solution is that all nuseries should come under the auspices of the Department for Education, they should all be run as not-for-profit (any surpluses should be put back into the nursery as training for staff or investment) and parents should make up the bulk of the committee.

IMO profit and vulnerable young children just don't mix well.

speak2deb - I've already done something similar to that and got nowhere. When I was a member of a pre-school management committee, there was a consultation paper out which basically said that the fees would increase from £20 to £450 per year. I won't go into details - they are somewhere in the 'Pre-school' section of mumsnet - but for me this was the last straw. I wrote to the Department of Children, Schools and Families and told them that the current system is not working, and quite frankly, the State should be funding pre-schools like ours as they do with the primary schools.
I suggested the solution that all pre-schools should come under the auspices of the Department for Children, Schools and families to bannish the need for nurseries to make a profit which in theory can be plundered, and that parents should make up the bulk of the committee as they have a vested interest for the setting to be well run.

My ending quote was "For profit-making businesses and daycare for under 3s don't mix". I have received no reply to my letter to date.

I don't know anything about you or your life style but I will say that for us home owner ship,new cars etc are not important.Our children do not go without anything and are not being reared by strangers.We chose to have them.they are our responsibility

I am not working for the home ownership (we currently rent) and we certainly don't have a new car. I'm working to pay the rent, bills, debts, etc. And despite what you may think, I am rearing my child, I just work as well. And if I didn't work, we would fall further into debt and what on earth would that achieve, would my daughter appreciate us becoming homeless and having no money? I wouldn't qualify for benefits if I voluntarily gave up my job. You seem to have a very blinkered view about life and money. Good luck to you if you can afford not to work, I can't afford that luxury.

We can barely afford it.Thanks for wishing me luck

Quite shocked that looking after my own children is considered as having 'high' values.Who would have thought it?
You know nothing about my morals blushoes and I must say you sound extremely defensive.
Tbh I don't know why you are so bothered about my[one persons]opinion.I don't care what you think of my opinions.