Nursery shock report

[needmorecoffee]

anyone see this

lazylou that is really sad. and it is terrible that these nurseries exist but the onus is still on the parent to a certain extent. when looking at nurseries i checked the qualitfications, experience and turnover of staff. i simply would not have used the nurseries you describe.

equally i know some parents are forced to use poor quality nurseries simply beacuse they are cheaper.

i still think the programs will be senssational and scare mongering esp. for first time mums clutching their precious new borns knowing they have to go back to wokr.

A question - is it the case with nurseries (with a few exceptions) that you really get what you pay for? Expensive private nurseries presumably have higher staff-to-children ratios, whereas the cheapest nurseries will have bare minimum staffing levels, least qualified staff, etc?

Which would mean that the least well-off parents have the poorest choice?

I know that there are a few nurseries around me that have excellent reputations, and which look lovely, but I could never afford them.

The report says the journalist was contacted by a concerned Ofsted inspector and did not phone round. What should she have done -- ignored information from an OFSTED inspector that the OFTED nursery inspection system has serious failings? I think the journalist probably thought that parents might be interested.

Do you not believe in a free press and free reporting? Would you like to see all whistle-blowers silenced if you don't like what they tell you?

Jodie, that's not the absolute truth. Human beings are social animals. If someone has a go, you'd have to be a psychopath not to react. Anyone short of psychopathy does have a response to other human beings. And guilt is a very powerful emotion.

"Only you can make you feel guilty" is just a line trotted out by people who are refusing to take responsibility for their own actions. Like any human interaction, it depends on context - whether the person doing the accusing is being reasonable or aggressive and whether the person on the receiving end is reasonable, or doing a 'woe is me, I'm UPSET, how dare you criticise me'.

policywonk - IME no. We looked at several nurseres when I had to find a new one for DD, age 2 (due to change in my job not concerns over nursery setting) I looked at a whole range with quite a large difference in costs. We could have afforded any of them fortunately. But in the end the one I chose was mid range, possibly even slightly cheaper than average TBH. And it was great - small, aring, stable staffing level, qualified staff, great putside space, good indoor soft play, lots of positives.

actually near me it was simpler becuase they are all expensive. i was momentarily swayed by one cheapo one but when it came to crunch (i.e. i actually had dd) i couldn't bear to put her there.

so yes it probably is a matter of less choice for the less well off. which would probably make a more interesting and important tv. program

I am lucky in that I do not have any childcare to think of as my MIL lives round the corner

but my friends have chosen nurseries and I don't think they bothered with Ofsted reports, they visited or chose via word of mouth and gut feeling

I remember dd1 starting playgroup, half days at 2.6yrs and she used to come home smelling of her careworkers (bad) perfume (!) but that told me she was getting cuddles

all the staff have been there for years and years, one mother has a 10 year old and a 2 year old and it is the same staff that have looked after both her children

there are bad places though and tbh I am not sure what choices I would have made if it hadn't been for my MIL

and imo if youre paying that kind of money to have your child looked after then it should be the best care money can buy. without exception.

Even if the 700 bad nurseries have now been given bad reports by ofsted, chances are that they have been running like that for the past 4 years, so how many children have been through them.

parents are charged the earth to put their children into nursery, they leave them there in the hope that they are looked after to the highest standards, but the nurseries pay their staff a pittence, and presumably pocket the prophets, and it is the parents and the children that suffer as a result.

How often do OFSTED visit day care centres these days and how is it gone about?

I thought it was far more frequently, and that although the day care centre knew roughly what month it would be, they didn't know the actual day? Is that not the case?

parents shouldn't be 'hoping' for anything they shoudl be ensuring they are getting. you don't just stick your child through the letterbox and assume someone will catch her at the other side.

I agree SheherazadwtheGoat. The onus is still on the parents to ensure that they have checked and investigated every kind of possibility with regard to childcare provision for their child.

When I gave up work (well was forced to through ill health) I decided that DD still needed the stimulation and interaction that nursery could provide, but because of my experiences and because I know that parents have been duped into believing a service is particularly good when it isnt, we decided to send DD to school nursery and as I would with any other form of childcare, I checked the credentials of the staff working there and the reputation etc etc. Their Ofsted report wasn't the best, but when I questioned the HT about it, he reassured me with his answers and the way he handled my queries that things were improving.

DD loves it there and I am happy with our choice. So much so, that I am going to be volunteering as a qualified nursery nurse/teaching assistant between the nursery and the reception class until DS is born in May.

I passionately believe that the most important years of a child's life (in terms of their potential development) are the years up to 6yo.

We are failing our DC by not ensuring that they get the best possible care during this time.

By that I mean the country, our society, not the individual.

We should be pumping cash into our nurseries and preschools.

We should train nursery nurses to a high standard and not allow unqualified staff in nurseries.

The fault is not with OFSTED, it is in the whole system. They could abolish OFSTED and spend the money improving nurseries.

TBH I don't think childcare is that expensive when you consider te job we are asking them to do. Yes, it is difficult to find the money when working in lower paid jobs, but pound for pound I do think it is money well spent when you get a nursery you are happy with.

£1100/month is a full time place
8am-6pm = 10 days/day
= 50 hours/week

On a 51 week year, that works out at £259/week = £5/hour

it's not actually that much money.

(i know it is a LOAD of money, but broken down like that, they are not ripping us off and i am not sure how profitable nurseries actually are for the owners).

that would be lovely ks but i imagine the daily mail would implode if tax payers money was being wasted allowing evil woman to return to work.

Hulababy, Ofsted inspectors do just turn up to inspect settings, but we knew ours was due because it had been longer than 4 years since the last. My friend also works in DN and told me that Ofsted actually phoned and said 'we will be in on this day to inspect you.' That was as recent as 2 weeks ago!

I don't hold the view that the more expensive the setting, the better the care. I have worked in some cheap places and some expensive places, but the general feelings and experiences I have cover both unfortunately.

it isn't a whole lot of money when you consider what they do. i regard it as an investment. i have some money left over to help out, i am paying my pension and maintaining my career. when dd does go to school i will be in a better position.

Shegoat
Would that be such a bad thing?

Completely agree, Kinder. It is a hugely important issue (and, dare I say it, if childcare was perceived as a male responsibility rather than a female one, it would already be a priority).

Labour wants us all to get back into paid employment the minute our milk comes in, but doesn't seem to be prepared to put in the necessary resources to ensure that ALL children are looked after in excellent environments.

would you put a baby in nursery for 50 hours a week though?

that makes me quite sad

not sure why

lol ks!

Kindersurprise, I do not agree that unqualified staff should not be allowed to work in nurseries. After all, we all have to start somewhere and where better to learn the day to day workings of a nursery nurse than in an environment where that should be happening all the time?

I do think, however that unqualified staff should be more closely supervised and assessed as they train.

Standards are being raised across the profession, with Level 3 becoming the minimum qualification requirement and the introduction of graduates to settings. But again, it is down to the government to ensure that people who have worked to achieve all these qualifications and experience are paid appropriately. As a graduate, there is no way that I am prepared to work for minimum wage and sadly that is the only amount of money I am likely to be offered because the government refuses to put the funding into place.

that makes me sad too oo.

Kinder -- who would inspect the government funded nurseries? Perhaps we could all rely on Olive's gut instinct.

That was snide of me.

But you can't abolish the inspectors, you just have to make the system work.