Nursery shock report

[needmorecoffee]

anyone see this

I think it is a very interesting report and very telling being from an OFSTED reporter. My DD was at nursery 8-5 Mon to Fri but was 18m. I soon gave it up and SAH as it seemed so regimented, she wasn't happy and I hated leaving her all day much as I loved my job and I longed for a (for her future as I saw it) better house, better car, holidays etc. The actual nursery was very good with mature qualified stable staff but it just didn't seem right. I felt I was going along with what society expected, not what I or DD wanted.

Most nurseries I looked at were staffed by teenagers and seemed very institutional. I think while child caring in general is seen as low status (ie SAHM's or anyone non wage earning is looked down upon) then child care will not be very good. The ratio and attention is not going to be better than a mother of triplets (I had twins and that was very hard). I know several childminders and out of about 8 would only trust one to look after my kids. I used to go to the same toddler groups and they (some of them) would leave babies asleep in the foyer and a person running the group would come round and ask everyone if it were their baby crying outside or being sick!

I think some take on too many or do it for the money. Many of them (that I know) believe SAH is better which is why they do it (rather than work in a nursery) as it enables them to SAH, so many feel (as was seen on another recent thread) at odds with the beliefs of their charge's parents.

totally agree with jellybeans

I don't see this report as being an attack on working mothers at all. I think it wants to highlight the fact that conscientious parents who read a nursery's Ofsted report may not get a full picture. It doesn't assume that working mothers don't care, and don't investigate the child care their children are having. In fact I think it's important -- once you have chosen a nursery, with things looking very calm and even on other parents' recommendations, things can change at that nursery and it will not necessarily be picked up by the Ofsted inspectors, which is worrying. I am convinced this is about nurseries, and not about working parents and "how could they leave their children in these conditions". It came from a concerned Ofsted inspector.

I know loads of people who have sent their kids to the first nursery she went to and it has a good word of mouth reputation. So if what she wrote is true its not that good a way of choosing a nursery.

yes its about the level of care in some nurseries and how parents are paying too much for sub standard care (also how badly the workers are paid)

Hula. In response to one of your earlier posts. Private day nurseries have spot regular inspections. Nurseries attached to schools (even private nurseries attached to state schools) get a few days notice as the school and nursery will be inspected all in one go. Childminders also get a few days notice.

I also object to the 'pay peanuts - get monkeys' comments. Our nursery employs two women in their forties who are unable to have biological children. Both had previous 'high flying' careers but now work in childcare as they love the close contact it gives them with children. One of them looks after my 16 month old son and I know that he is sometimes in two minds as to who he wants to stay/go with at the end of the day!! These women love children and are loved in return.

The rest of our staff, with the exception of our two trainees have fantastic qualifications and experience. QTS, B Ed, NNEB etc. Interestingly we employ only two 'natives' and our non natives' work ethic, attitude and standard of English would put many people to shame.

This report/programme highlights awful nursery care. It exists, of course - but it does no justice to tar all nurseries. Just as the 'Nannies From Hell' programme a few years back does not represent the care given by the vast majority of nannies.

PS. '16 year olds with no qualifications' can not be employed by nurseries as OFSTED require all staff to be over 17, and 17 year olds can only be employed if the nursery manager deems them 'capable.'

Bracing myself for parents worries over the programme tomorrow - am a childcare manager. Just to add my views:

Ofsted - reports not accurate or fair, bad nursery down the road got outstanding, got tip off from school. Nurseries inspected at beginning of inspection cycle less likely to get outstanding than those at the end. Ofsted inspectors wildly different views on certain topics.

Young/unqualified staff - very important to train staff to work this way, however must be properly supervised.

Graduates - I could have a degree in history, do 9 mths short pathway and lead the nursery, is that really better than soemone who has worked in a nursery for 10 years, attended regular training and has a childcare qualification?

At the risk of upsetting parents there are lots of bad nurseries. When we were inspected by social services (every year) better standards - although agree that the new no notice inspections are needed (but unfair when some get notice and others don't). Maximum inspection cycle should be 3 years but some wait nearly 4 years! Lots can change in that time.

Government funding etc etc - until nurseries are properly funded (education grant) and subsidised their will be low pay and for this reason experienced staff do leave when finances get tight and this can lead to more less experienced staff.

Hope that programme is fair but then that will not make good headlines will it! But some nurseries are like this and ofsted need to sort themselves out. It seems that nurseries are very very rarely closed down even with bad report after bad report.

Mummywannabe. I definitely agree with your last comment. Yes, bad nurseries must be closed. OFSTED seem to lack teeth in this department.

And I definitely agree that all inspections should be spot-check. My DCs (state) primary has a nursery run by a well-known chain attached. Even with five days notice it only managed a 'satisfactory.'

With this much notice big chains can move staff around to bump up the ratios. Although, as our last OFSTED inspector told us - they know when nurseries and/or CMs are pulling a fast one as either, in the case of nurseries, the children don't obviously know the 'regular' staff members - And in the case of CMs the children look confused/bemused when the CMs get the cornflour/messy play materials out.

Having been on a management committee of a pre-school playgroup and having dd 30 hours in a nursery, I think this report is totally unfair. I have no doubt that there are some God awful nurseries. However, on the other side of the coin, there are also excellent nurseries. I don't see a program made about good nurseries - only bad. I guess it's more newsworthy isn't it?

Mumofhelen, yes, it is more newsworthy, but it's better that we know than that we don't. The original source is an Ofsted inspector, not a headline chaser. Mummywannabe, I sympathise, and can imagine the reaction that some will have. But when my kids were at nursery, if I'd seen something like this I wouldn't have thought -- mine's the same, because I knew it wasn't. I hope and am sure your parents will have the same reaction.

Yes. A lot more newsworthy, I suppose.

It's also really crappy for an (excellent) nursery near us which happens to share the name of one of the nurseries which will be featured in the programme. Both nurseries are fairly close to each other and I fear that our neighbour will get mistaken for the other.

thanks the last time that hideous programme showed bad nurseries my parents were lovely and i'm sure it will be the same this time. Its the newer parents i worry about, they don't have that relationship of trust and its hard enough for them to leave their child. I agree that the public needs to be made aware but wish it was a bit more balanced and demonstrated problems with the system, rather than just showing all nurseries as terrible

Well, I'm off to watch this program now.

Bubble99 -- there should be some redress of some kind especially if the nursery is not clearly identified. But the libel lawyers will have looked at the programme before broadcast.

Really feel like I am playing devil's advocate to a certain extent here, but tbh I detect feelings of "let's shoot the messenger".

ps bubble have started a thread to say thanks to you re: bullying advice couple of weeks ago -- situation resolved.

I know what you mean, stuffit

this problem really needs to be addressed, rather than blaming the journalist involved and saying she is trying to kickstart her career and how she'll change her mind when she has kids

I don't know if some people are refusing to see there is a problem or just missing the point

The stuff she is reporting on BBC1 about Mark Warner isn't great is it? They really aren't showing them in a good light at all.

that programme was really shocking

I can't help thinking of the amny threads on here where its SAHM V WOHM and its a fight right thru

we are all actually ignoring the real problem, the goverment should be ashamed of the many problems with childcare in this country, it should be properly managed and a lot less expensive

good childcare should be a right for every parent and every child

think the programme actually showed that the root of the problem was inadequate systems by ofsted. They way the staff treated the children in the nursery was horrific. However some of the things she showed - the metal garden tools, are something the children would have access to, as long as properly supervised (which they clearly wasn't).

The mark warner bit was shocking - but don't see how the baby listening service incident was their fault, it was advertised as just that - occassional checks by listening to the rooms, so parents were aware and made a decision based on theor own views as to whether that is acceptable to them or not.

Families should be able to live on one wage whilst the othr parent stays at home with the children..or in the case of single parewnts ..a different approach[though not sure what]Society is geared around both parents going out to work.Though I have to say we are poor.We made a decision when we had ds1 that one of us would be at home.We have suffered financially but i really don't see the point of having kids and sticking them in childcare for 40+hours a week.I really don't.I expect loads of people will make loads of excuses but frankly i don't care.
Must be mad to do this to your kids.

Here we go, WOHM v SAHM. Boooooooring.

no don't start saying that!!!!

we are ignoring the real problem if we try to turn this report into a sahm v wohm thread

No it's not that.It's bloody depressing.Maybe we can't have it all.And for your info dp and I have taken it in turns to be at home over the years.
If you want to pursue a career go for it,put your kids last and kid yourself that you can have quality time with them when it suits you.but don't whinge when the nureries are shite..it's pretty obvious when they are.
Depends what ypou priorities are.

I can't be arsed to respond to you.

Ditto