Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Please or to access all these features

Nurseries

Find nursery advice from other Mumsnetters on our Nursery forum. For more guidance on early years development, sign up for Mumsnet Ages & Stages emails.

Nursery shock report

191 replies

needmorecoffee · 05/03/2008 08:57

anyone see this

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Hulababy · 05/03/2008 09:23

Have to say that when I chose DD's nursery I didn't even look at the OFSTED report until the end of the process, after I had selected the nursey I liked best.

Visits and gut feeling were the key deciding factors for me - and the twice I had to choose it worked for me.

Legoleia · 05/03/2008 09:24

Surely when we hear some news which might concern our children, it's a good time to re-assess,

I don't think we can choose to believe only the stories that back up our thinking, we should consider those which challenge it or make us uncomfortable.

Yes, I could "try" a nursery and then move my dc if they were unhappy. But I'd prefer it if a highly-rated by ofsted nursery could be trusted to look after my children in that time.

Lulumama · 05/03/2008 09:24

i thought they also do surprise insepections

also as has been pointed out lower down the thread.. who would put their child into a nursery at the cost of £1100 a month , without looking round, asking other parents, leaving their child for a trial session etc...

Kindersurpise · 05/03/2008 09:24

Wannabe
That would be a bit of a problem for working mums though, if the nursery was closed down at a moments notice.

Not saying that it is acceptable to offer substandard care.

spokette · 05/03/2008 09:30

Ofsted do surprise inspections so I question the veracity and motive of this journalist.

I have popped into my DTS nursery unannounced many times and I know other parents do too.

This article annoys me because there is an inference that parents are not inquisitive enough about the carers with whom they leave their children.

We are not idiots.

wannaBe · 05/03/2008 09:30

but maybe if the nursery was closed at a moment's notice the nurseries would get their standards up to par and that wouldn't be necessary. And yes of course that would be a problem for working parents, but would you rather take time off to look at your child because the childcare had been considered inadequate? or keep that child in the same inadequate nursery while you hoped they got their act together?

The parents at the nursery in question did notice yes, and I believe many complained to ofsted, and I know at least three who took their children out and put them into different nurseries. But fact is it shouldn't have been at that level in the first place.

and I too am concerned at the statement from the ofsted inspector that only 5 out of 700 nurseries were suitable for her child. That's a hell of a ratio, and suggests to me that more nurseries are bad than aren't.

policywonk · 05/03/2008 09:30

Sheherezade - I think it's newsworthy if there's a rotten nursery, already acknowledged to be rotten, that is still running, treating children badly and betraying parents' trust. I'd think it was a scandal if such things weren't reported, tbh.

Hulababy · 05/03/2008 09:31

Wannabe - did the parents not pck up on this at the nursery? If so then they should have reprted it to OFSTED and they would then have had to reinvestigate again far sooner.

Hulababy · 05/03/2008 09:31

x post

wannaBe · 05/03/2008 09:32

I don't know whether ofsted came back tbh because the children I knew there were removed. hmm might go and find out though..

GColdtimer · 05/03/2008 09:32

You know I don't actually think I have even read my nursery's ofstead report . It was brand new when dd went there a year ago and I choose it because of the staff, the space and the general feel of the place. Because of my job I often turn up at different times and all the children seem happy and all the carers are always cuddling one child or another. If I wasn't happy with what I saw, I would take dd out and find alternative childcare.

Surely all parents do this and then act accordingly? I am surprised that parents don't realise when conditions are that appalling.

wannaBe · 05/03/2008 09:34

but obviously some parents don't because there are children in these nurseries.

chelsygirl · 05/03/2008 09:34

that link in the op is shocking

stuffitllama · 05/03/2008 09:35

Why is the instant reaction that this is scare-mongering and a stick for working parents to beat themselves up with? Do you not find it even mildly interesting that ""an inspector at Ofsted said that out of 700 nurseries she and colleagues had inspected, she had found only five that she would have let her own two children go to". The original source is an OFSTED inspector not a sensationalising journalist trying to kickstart a career who contacted the BBC in the public interest and in the interests of children and no doubt risked her job doing so. I'm sure she would be surprised to see that the consensus on mn would be that she has wasted her time.

Kindersurpise · 05/03/2008 09:36

Wannabe
Some parent would not be able to take time of work if the nursery were to be closed down at a moments notice.

I know that would be my instinct, but I am lucky that DH's job pays the bills and my PT job is just for extras like holidays.

Hulababy · 05/03/2008 09:38

Presumably that inspector therefore recorded the other 695 nurseries as poor or unacceptable so that they could be investigated further and brought up to scratch? If not why didn't she? If she truely feels that they are not acceptable for her own child then surely she has a duty to report this matter to OFSTED for further investigations? If she hasn't done this then is she doing her job properly?

Lazylou · 05/03/2008 09:39

Well, I recognise some of these situations from my own experiences of working in day nurseries unfortunately, and although whilst I agree with what the majority has said regarding scaremongering, I also think that the journalist makes valid points.

For example, my first day nursery assistant job when I was 18. I had no expereince of working with children in ANY capacity, with the exception of the odd baby sitting stint, but on my very first day, I was left in sole charge of the pre-school room. I approached the nursery manager and explained that although I wasn't sure of the 'rules' I was pretty sure that as an unqualified un polic checked person, it was not allowed. I was told that it was tough, I was the only one to do it and was shut in the pre-school room for the rest of the day. In the three years I worked there, I never once had to undergo a CRB check and the only formal training I had was as part of my NVQ studies.

This has been the case in all but one setting I worked in. Lack of qualified people taking sole charge of rooms/groups of children, lack of appropriate checks. Unfortunately, it does happen.

The point of lack of money paid to child carers is also a very valid one in my eperience and again I have found myself in a variety of situations where I have been earning under the legal national minimum wage. Nurseries tend to promise staff all manner of discounts for their own children and incentives such as free uniform and health care discounts but they never seem to materialise. For this reason, I have had to change jobs in the sector numerous times because I simply cannot afford to keep my family on the poor wages that the job affords me.

As for inspections, having been through the process numerous times in my numerous jobs, I would agree that in the past, the inspections are not always worth the paper they are written on, but this is in the days before spot inspections. However, even though this is the case now, nurseries IME still have a rough idea when Ofsted are going to come knocking and so the preparations begin in the months leading up to it.

I have only ever worked in one nursery where the inspection was favourable (outstanding) and deserved because the staff were all qualified to above the national minimum, or at least undertaking NVQs or equivalent qualifications. Unqualified staff are not to be left alone and those withouth CRB checks are, regardless of qualification, unable to be left alone with the children. The proprietor of the chain (3 nurseries) was passionate about the job, and made sure through rigorous interviewing and reference checking that the staff she employed were too. The money was still shit tbh, but at least it actually met minimum wage requirements.

This is not intended to add any further guilt to working parents. I am one myself and DD has attended every nursery I have ever worked in. I'm just saying that I can and have seen the negative sides represented in the article and unfortunately, until childcare/early years work is better recognised by the powers that be, these situations will keep arising. It doesn't help that a CRB check can take up to 2 months to come back.

policywonk · 05/03/2008 09:40

I can see your point kinder, but isn't that part of a vicious circle? Parents who must work to pay the mortgage = substandard nurseries that can take the piss because parents can't take children out at the drop of a hat?

This is one of the consequences of a culture that encourages all parents to 'work' (ie be in paid employment) without being prepared to sink a great deal of taxpayers' money into extremely well-funded nurseries staffed by well-paid, highly motivated, highly qualified staff.

Don't get me wrong - if parents want or need to work then I'm all for it. But in my five years of being a parent, I've observed a lot of childminders and a few nurseries, and in the vast majority of cases I would not be happy about my DSs being in the care of the people I have observed.

Lulumama · 05/03/2008 09:42

exactly hulababy, and how many OFSTED insepctors did she have to speak before she could find one negative enough to back up her story

i find it interesting

the nursery DS went to was fabulous, i knew the owner, and knew her ethos. it had an open door policy, and i could go and have lunch with DS if i wanted to. if i picked him up early, i was invited to stay for story time or parachute games...

the only reason DD not there is i cannot afford it now

i discounted another nursery as met two people who used to work there who left because it was so awful.

JodieG1 · 05/03/2008 09:42

Hulababy the only person that can MAKE you feel guilty is yourself, there may well be outside influence making that guilt more likely but still if people were truely happy with what they were doing then they wouldn't feel guilty. I understand that may be a necessary guilt ie if they work but it still is the individual. I believe that noone makes you feel anything, it's all internal and how you react to situations.

edam · 05/03/2008 09:42

I'm all in favour of people exposing what goes on in a shit nursery. The parents of children at that place deserve to know the truth. But I'm sure it's not fair to tar all nurseries with the same brush.

Wannabe, it's just not as simple as "Would you rather take time off to look at your child because the childcare had been considered inadequate?", I'm afraid.

Many bosses would not be terribly sympathetic to parents who wanted to take time off - some employers (I think Tesco, for instance) discipline people for taking time off EVEN when there are good, validated reasons. Working parents are caught between the devil and the deep blue sea.

Ds was in a good nursery as a baby/toddler but it started to go downhill and I had to take him out in the end. Very disturbing that even when you are happy with a place, it can go wrong quite so quickly.

wannaBe · 05/03/2008 09:43

kindersurprise but given the amount of money most of those parents would save by not having their child in nursery for that time they would be able to afford to take unpaid leave.

Not many bring home more than £1100 a month...

Even the cheapest nurseries are bloody expensive

stuffitllama · 05/03/2008 09:43

Sometimes the only way to alert the public is by whistle-blowing. The internal mechanisms within a profession don't always work/often don't work.

Lazylou · 05/03/2008 09:43

Ooh, and another thing (sorry). At college whilst talking to a fellow nursery nurse, we were told that Ofsted inspectors very often do not have any relevant childcare/early years experience themselves. In one instance, a setting was inspected by an Ofsted inspector who had been previously working as a vet . This leads me to question the suitability of the inspectors in the first place. How can they make judgements on how well a setting is operating if they do not have a basic knowledge and understanding of how such settings work?

Hulababy · 05/03/2008 09:44

We shall have to agree to disagree on that point Jodie I am afraid.