MALE STAFF AT NURSERIES - MAKES ME FEEL UNEASY.....

[Lolabelle]

I hate to be sexist and i appreciate thats how it would seem but we viewed a nursery today for my DD1 who is 2 and the staff contained two young men (max age 20 if that) and one would be responsible for my DD1. That means nappy changing the works and my husband and i both felt uneasy when we discussed it later. I really, really hate even saying it and they are probably lovely lads but too much goes on this day and sadly yes it usually is by men/lads etc and ...oh i don't know - am i being completely out of order thinking like this???

JARM, I know of male childminders who do the job and make a decent living at it, really I do.

I bloody love it when blokes work in childcare, me. A nephew of mine had the most fabulous Geordie Bloke Keyworker at nursery - all tatooes and earrings - and everyone (including said nephew's lesbian parents) thought he was completely fab.

JARM, I started a thread for your DH (in Chat)

this thread makes me sad.

i am of the 'paedophile paranoia is what is evil' school of thought.

but it is your child's care. and you need to feel comfortable about it.

so don't go for it if you don't.

principles fly out of the window when it comes to this sort of thing imo and ime.

Message for JARM

I have a male childminder for DS's 1,2 and 3. Aged 9, 5 and 9 months. He is fantastic - he is a great cook, feeds them mega healthy meals every evening. Takes them to the park to play footie and climb (how often do I do that??? or DH for that matter!!!) Takes DS3 to play group twice per week and to an animal sanctury on the remaining day. Texts me photos of DS3 doing things like walking with a walker at playgroup which he had never done before. Took them bowling at half term. Believe me the mums at school never stop telling me how lucky I am...and does he have other spaces?? He is CRB checked, OFSTEDed and up to his eyes in first aid training.

If your DH wants to do childminding I would say have a go. Where I live the numbers of men wanting to stay at home with their kids and do child minding is on the rise and all the mums I know are enthusiastic about it. I've never had such a good child carer in 9 years.

lolabelle, perhaps you could spend some time staying at the nursery and getting to know the staff and then see what you think. one of the staff at my dd's nursery is a young bloke and it never crossed my mind that he might be a danger, but then he seems nice. he's since dated my 19yr old dd for a while but that's another story.

I quite agree with KVG It sounds like a lot of your anxiety is about putting your dd into nursery at all - and that is quite understandable; when my ds was about a year I took him to a taster session at nursery and I was so traumatised by it I swore never to go back. (He was fine, obviously).

Please don't think a childminder won't provide adequate social interaction, they don't just sit with their feet up watching Tricia whilst the kids play with matches you know! (Or do they?! Just kidding CMs). I much prefer ds' CM because it's more of a family environment, and he's being cared for by someone who knows the odd thing about childcare due to having 5 of her own.

As to the male keyworker thing, my CM said to me one day "my dh is at home this morning, hope ds won't be upset by that". Of course he was unfazed - due to the fact he is cared for by his dad every afternoon he is quite used to being around male caregivers, but that actually is quite unusual (more's the pity, in my view) - and needs to be handled appropriately.

Tbh I don't see the point in telling lolabelle she is being irrational, prejudiced and narrow-sighted. She knows that (as indeed I did when I was in her shoes). What she wants is the opinions of others as to how they would feel (ok with it or not ok)and not lectures. Don't forget that there are often reasons why people have neurosis/irrational anxieties (eg abuse in their own childhood)and whilst I'm not suggesting anyone should collude with it, a bit of understanding wouldn't go amiss. I don't recall her ever saying that male workers shouldn't be in nurseries, just that it made her feel uncomfortable.

Er, plummymummy -- From OP: "am i being completely out of order thinking like this???". IMO "Yes you are, and here's why" is a perfectly valid response to that question.

THanks for the encouragement guys, am going to talk it over in depth, look into exactly what it will cost in start up fees, and see where we go.

Promising comments though, thank you.

i really wish there were more men in childcare and in infant and primary schools. i would love my boys to have lots of good male role models. their teachers and lsas are all women and they are lovely lovely women, but i would really like a male lsa too. ds1 had a male teacher at the infant school and adored him. men have so much to give to young children as well as women and it is a shame they are not better represented (or accepted)

I sometimes think my DSs would be better off at home woth DP than me, because DP tends to devote all his time to the boys and is less likely to get sidetracked by housework and more likely to actually do stuff with them, where as I am in 100 places at once usually.

I'd have no problem with a male key worker for my DSs, if I felt comfortable with them. I have come across plenty of men, and womane, however, I wouldn't dream of leaving them with.

If you don;t feel comfortable with it, don;t do it. You need peace of mind, especailly while pg.

Yes, I do think the whole "All men working with children are pervs" attitude is sad, but as someone else said, if you aren't comfortabel with it, don;t do it. It sounds like you aren't comfortable with the nursery as a whole, and are maybe using this as an excuse. ?

Lemonaid, I take your point if you're merely referring to the question in isolation but having read the thread there seems to be more to it. Also maybe it's just me but I'm not sure it's this nursery in particular that's giving her a dilemma. She obviously has a lot of anxieties in general. There is a difference between stating your opinion (which is what she asked for) and being judgemental. However, you can do what you want on here cos afterall it's an anonymous board and as long as you're happy with your comments and think they're valid.....well that's all well and good.

As a parent you will want to feel that your child is being cared for as best as possible (a nursery is not ideal as best care is provided by a parent, not anyone else).

Alas you have been brainwashed by the media. While I do appreciate that men abuse children - so do women! The media alas tends to only mention abuse by men... it sells more papers! As others have said, stats indicate that your child is far more at risk from relations (whose criminal background is not checked), than from childcare workers (who are checked).

If it helps put your mind at ease, as a male nursery nurse (I work as a nanny at the moment, not in a nursery), I am checked on average 3 times per year by the CRB and other bodies. In 2006, I had 3 Enhanced CRB disclosures, one via SureStart, one via a recruitment agency, and the other via Social Services. There are plans to change the current system, so that all childcarers are registered and information regarding suitability to work with children is updated constantly. It is however some years off yet.

am i being completely out of order thinking like this?

No, you are not out of order in thinking it.
However if you were not to send your child to a nursery purely on the grounds that the nursery had male staff, then yes that would be wrong. The nursery has to comply with law - so can not discriminate against men. Their staff (male and female) will be cleared to work with children and the nursery should have also obtained references.

If you want control over who exactly cares for your child - including that persons gender, the only current legal way is to hire a nanny - as parents who hire nannies are currently exempt from the Sex Discrimination Act (not sure why... think it's just old law not being updated).

I have to say I'm delighted that my boys have a male assistant in their classroom. He's the only male role model during the week as their father tends to travel widely. He's a wonderful young man and all the children adore him. I can understand concerns however I truly feel it's a shame there are not more men involved in childcare.

best staff member at a nursery i have used was male

I felt a bit like this when ds1 started nursery school at 3. He had never been away from me for more than about half an hour, apart from when I was having his brother. He wasn't clingy, I was!! When he started there I was taken aback to see that there was a male Head. I had the urge to run a mile. I was shocked at myself for reacting like that and felt ashamed of being such a bigot, and of course I didn't stop ending him, it wasn't that strong a feeling - but I definitely registered anxiety about it and was surprised at myself.

It wasn't because I though he might be a pervert, that never actually occurred to me. I'm ashamed to say that it was because I was worried he might be too harsh on the children, that he might frighten ds, and (even worse, but am being honest) I couldn't understand why a man would want to work with tiny little children. I could understand a man wanting to teach children old enough to learn academically, ie secondary school age, but not a man in a purely caring/play-centred role. Which is just bloody pathetic because I don't see my dh like that and he would be very hurt and angry if I did!!!

I thought about this a lot. And eventually I concluded that it had to do with my father leaving when I was quite young. I had a chequered relationship with my stepfather and although it wasn't all bad I definitely didn't (still don't) trust him or understand him. I hero-worshipped my dad as a child, but can't say I trusted or understood him either (although I do now, after much effort and trauma). I worked out that the reason I reacted in such a primitive and shocking way to the headmaster at the nursery school was because I really had never quite believed that men could love, or nurture, or be empathic, especially towards children. I didn't "believe in" fatherhood in the same way as motherhood and I was rather afraid of men. I had exempted my dh by just always saying "well he's different, he's special, that's why I married him".

The reason for the ramble is that I did react in a similar way to Lolabelle, and it took me quite a while to work out why. I never conveyed these feelings either to ds or to the man in question, because I did know I was being ridiculous. And now I am very glad indeed that ds has had a male teacher/carer at such a young age, because I don't want him to grow up with such a dysfunctional attitude. And this man is brilliant with the children.

Just thought I would join Lolabelle in the stocks. Sometimes we don't react completely reasonably (and I wasn't even pregnant when I was being an idiot ) and it can be very upsetting and take a while to rationalise.

PS - I don't look at other people's dh/dp and think "oh no, a man". I am really really over this stupid attitude now. And much happier for it. And I know some wonderful men who are amazing dads!

Lolabelle's reaction isn't an uncommon one.

Mr Bubble and I own and work in two nurseries. I'm on maternity leave at the moment but Mr Bubble goes into one or both of the nurseries every day. We both provide lunch-cover by helping out in the rooms during mealtimes. A woman and her child recently came for a 'show round' and the mother later asked the manager who the 'man holding the toddler' was and why was there a man working in the nursery. Our manager explained that the man was one of the owners and the todddler was his son!

She signed up anyway, so Mr Bubble can't look that scary.

what a great response bubble probably made her feel better on reflection! I know when my ds first went to a nursery with male staff my thought was eh but on reflection I was pleased.

I really wish there were more men in the professions looking after/dealing with young children. I suppose from a selfish point of view, I want ds's to see that men can do nappies, cooking, cleaning, feeding kids etc. as they haven't got a man to watch do all those things at home. I want them to be looked after at nursery/school by a variety of people, women, men, old, young, different ethnicities - not just young-ish white women in the lower teaching grades and then the older white male headteacher as it currently is at ds1's primary school.

Actually we felt quite lucky at ds's nursery, the nursery had a male chef who also was the health and safety person and went with them on trips every now and then.

I think anxiety about leaving your child at nursery for the first time is completely understandable - been there, done that! Ask tons of questions - particularly if you're anxious for whatever reason about any of the workers there- ask how long they've been there, what their qualifications are, how they deal with certain situations etc.

I wouldn't feel comfortable with a nursery who had two young men changing nappies. I wouldn't register my child there.