PIP cuts- what happens next?

[Orangesandlemons77]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3q7584v07o

So this goes to a vote next month? What then does anyone know please?

I'm sceptical about these 'concessions' they might make given the last one was rubbish- an extra 13 weeks of benefits before they are cut

Can't imagine they will find anything meaningful to offer especially in the rushed timescale, I feel angry that something so important is being cobbled together without thought or consultation.

Also worried on a personal level, doing an MR to challenge my recently taken off 4 points areas, despite still getting the enhanced award (for now) which means as they have warned me, it could go up or down, so in doing this I am actually risking the award I do have.

And breathe.

I'm not keen on Liz Kendall. Where is she anyway? Seems very quiet

If they can get Tory support for the bill it will get voted through, but with massive damage to the Government.

Just read this annoying comment by Timms about numbers affected. Of course the assessors look at the previous report and go from there..

"The number of people currently on PIP who did not score 4 points in one category in their last assessment should not be equated with the number who are likely to lose PIP in future. It’s important to make a clear distinction between the two, not least because we don’t want constituents to be unnecessarily fearful about their situation, when we understand many are already anxious. Someone who did not score 4 points in an activity in a previous assessment may well score 4 points in a future assessment as conditions change over time."

We all know what will happen in reality. Assessors will no doubt be under pressure to reduce existing 4 scores, not give them out like sweets to people who don't already have them.🤬🤬🤬

@Dropthepilots Badenoch has said they will only support the bill if Labour promises no more tax rises. That is unlikely to happen. I hope.

So my recent review was in the last month or so and I think I noticed this happening already. They have written much more than usual in the bit about why other scores shouldn't apply, and also asked sneaky questions and in some cases made up stuff to merit this.

I have previous appeals decisions stating I meet some 4 point scores but they don't say much about that, I will appeal on the basis that things haven't changed so should still meet them but will see, I'm unsure if they even consider this given I have the 12 points already.

There will be lots more appeals I can imagine, another costly process and lengthy waiting times already which would surely just not get any better.

I am feeling fine, That is just my nature though. I am not complaining about that aspect of it. I just don't worry about it, until it actually happens. l have signed countless petitions, and hope that it has gone somewhere to show the outrage that lots of disabled people have for these proposed changes, that would see them further disadvantaged. I would have liked to go to the protest that will be happening at the end of the month, but that is not possible for me to travel there.

She has no empathy for the people that are being targeted.

{mention:Orangesandlemons77}Im@Orangesandlemons77I'm as worried as you. My dh didn't get 4 points for any descriptors but I'm too exhausted and afraid to challenge the decision at MR/Tribunal. I'm praying that they don't go ahead with this 4 point rule. My dh wouldn't get PIP again and I'd lose Carer's Allowance yet I'd still have to care for him. I agree that there's going to be a heck of a lot of people going to MR/Tribunal in the future which is going to cause even more of a backlog.

And will cost the country more money even though the government claim this is being done to save money

The backlog for appeals will be something else, if they go ahead with this 4 point change.

Yes, I'll have no choice but to appeal next time, which I can imagine will be the situation for many, many other people.

I'm appealing mine now, but not sure of the point as at my next review I know they will ignore any appeal decisions and just go by the previous assessor's report, so I will likely go back to the 2 point scores again.

Mine was just renewed, I claim for MH. I was still awarded 4 points in some sections which was a relief as I thought they might try to reduce it.
I am shocked at a labour government bringing in these changes, I would have expected it if the tories. I hope they suffer a huge rebellion.

The Times is now reporting they might change it from 4 points to 3, but I don't really understand that as most areas have 2 points or 4.

What is in the welfare bill — and what could Keir Starmer concede?

https://www.thetimes.com/article/794bc0be-cf61-4d38-a2e5-ba443dbd4191?shareToken=f0a6b33c2e420b0724d146af9bed64be

It could be that they will make some changes, tinkering around the edges, to look like they are taking some sort of action. They are on the wrong foot here, that is all that I know for sure.

I think the only 3 point score is for needing assistance to get in and out of a bath or shower.

Yes, doesn't really make sense does it. I don't think they really know what they're doing.

Half the time that Starmer’s wanging on about PIP he’s actually talking about UC. He’s fucking ignorant about the system he’s asking his backbenchers to dismantle which is why many of them have had enough.

And yes, there’s only one descriptor that carries 3 points, washing / bathing.

That is what they are all doing @theautumncrow . Deliberate obfuscation if you ask me.

The UC cuts for young people are also very worrying. DD is never likely to be able to work. Giving her a support into work package when she turns 18 is a farce.

i have always known that once she turns 18 we will be worse off but now it will drastically cut our standard of living.

Meanwhile I will still be her full time carer and, as one of her medical conditions is worsening, will in reality have to provide more care.

I wrote to my Labour MP about this and, as I said on another thread, he totally avoided my question and came about with some guff about how Labour will be supporting the vulnerable.

She does't have a PIP review for another four years but who knows what will have happened by then. The whole thing is incredibly depressing. I worked for years in a professional career paying tax and, as others have said, Labour clearly only value people when they are paying in.

Maybe it won't happen.

I feel angry that they've waded into something without knowing what they are doing.

@feellikeanalien I worked for years in a professional career paying tax and, as others have said, Labour clearly only value people when they are paying in.

I worked for years in a professional career paying tax, as a result of which I still bloody pay tax. I can assure you Labour don't even value people when they are paying in - unless they are rich and donating to the election campaigns, it would seem. Keir Hardie must be spinning in his grave...

I am sanguine about what is happening though - I fully understand why people are scared, and I am doing my part to address that, but one way or another this is coming. It might not be next week. It might not be this year. But the Tories had similar plans, Labour will not change course forever even if they do now, and I'd trust Farage less than the distance I could throw him. Equally, most of us recognise that the whole system needs reviewing and an overhaul. If we are honest there are people who are swinging the lead and playing the game. We all know that. There are also people who are desperately ill who the system steam rollers over and do not get their entitlements. There are people who die because of what this system does to them.

In my view, what we need is an independantly led review of disability in the UK, not tied to "just" benefits and standards of living, but a proper process that is about ensuring dignity of life for people with disabilities. Governments cannot be trusted with this because they have consistently shown that the cost is all they care about, so the UN will continue to find that the UK "has failed to take all appropriate measures to address grave and systematic violations of the human rights of persons with disabilities and has failed to eliminate the root causes of inequality and discrimination". I am fully in favour of appropriate and supported pathways to work for those that can work - every piece of research going shows that being in work has better health and life expectancy outcomes for everyone. Disabled people deserve that too. But if they cannot work or cannot work full time, it is not about choosing not to work (I'm a hardliner on unemployment - I would put everyone who can work, to work!), and that should not then consign them to a life of poverty. If we need a minimum wage to ensure workers dignity, then there needs to be a social contract for those genuinely unable to work to have equal access to a liveable income. What we need, and what nobody will give us, is tearing up the old system and starting again.