PIP cuts- what happens next?

[Orangesandlemons77]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3q7584v07o

So this goes to a vote next month? What then does anyone know please?

The problem is with saying about people with less severe disabilities will be losing out, is that PIP is not about the condition but about how the person is affected.

So you might have someone with heart failure for example, my dad had that and atrial fibrillation, they can be weak and tired and unable to work much if at all, and can have these episodes of syncope / fainting (but possibly PIP which only looks at how you are the majority of the time, might not look at that, not sure

But anyway, that person might be able to do some of the daily living activities, maybe slowly and with a bit of help, might get some 2 point scores but they would not qualify under the new rules, or be able to work either.

They might lose their LCWRA if that is going too, and losing PIP would not qualify for the health related part of UC as it is not going to be called

But work for this person could worsen their health especially if they have other conditions which a lot of people do get as they get older.

That's disappointing, wonder why they didn't challenge him more

So, what happens with this reasoned amendment now, that gets selected by the Speaker, then what? Will this happen before the vote?

From Stephen Bush’s Inside Politics column in the Financial Times
The underlying problem for Labour is that the policy is bad. The cuts run contrary to the logic of the government’s broader reforms to welfare, to the extent that they have any policy logic to them. That is one reason why the attempts to contain the rebellion are not working — ministers have been deployed to win round rebels. But, as one rebel put it to me, the problem is “they don’t really have anything to say”.
The average Labour rebel is pretty close to public opinion on this issue — they agree with the big picture aim of what the government is trying to do and concur that our welfare system needs reform, but they look at the arbitrary changes that the government is making and they say: “What on Earth does this have to do with reform?”
The introduction of universal credit was a reform because it changed how the benefits system operated …
But this proposed change by the Labour government, where Pip will continue to be assessed and operated in the same way as before but under a new series of conditions, is not a “reform”. It’s just a way to save money.

I agree with that excerpt @Orangesandlemons77

@MrsKyppwhat makes you think people with mild disability qualify for PIP? Think again. Have you even read descriptors?

Heads up - young people with anxiety and depression or autism/ADHD with sufficient severity to apply will score at least 4 on mixing with other people plus other points on organisation and money management and prompting for self care etc. Taking them over 12 with 4 in one category. They are more likely to keep PIP and associated benefits.

On the other hand those with limiting physical disabilities will score 2-3 on other multiple criteria but 0 on mixing with other people and needing help with organisation/money management etc. So they will lose PIP.

So cutting disability benefit to the physically impaired who are more likely to be in work and need PIP to stay in work. Plus cutting benefit to the physically impaired who are less likely to be able to find appropriate work due to impairment and age.

Exact opposite of what government wanted to achieve.

Exactly, and fits in with the article upthread about the main conditions and how they will be affected.

@Pocketsand I know someone personally. Actually it was her mother who claimed it for her and got high rate for both plus then a blue badge. The DD is apparently according to the Mum diagnosed ASD but evidently extremely mild. She went on holiday with friends to Spain last year, travels by bus alone / with friends, enjoys parties, etc etc I doubt many people would ever guess the DD has autism at all.

Some people lie, unfortunately. And some are very, very clever with it and know how to extort.

But I do belive the vast majority of people receiving PIP need and deserve it. There will always be a few who trick their way to get benefits, it can never be 100% watertight. And the govt should never base cut backs that will affect genuine claimants on those who are dishonest and succeed in abusing PIP.

PIP needs changing but not how they are doing it.

Also, remember lots of people with mental health also now get the mobility part as well as that was changed a few years ago meaning they would qualify for planning and following journeys, after a court case

Previously that was just meant to be for people with physical disabilities or people with e.g. sight problems, anyway this means they might well end up with high on both whereas the people mentioned now losing because of not having the 4 points might end up with nothing, unless of course they had a mobility problem severe enough to get them points in the getting around section (which changed from DLA to PIP as far as I remember in the walking distance so less people qualify there as well.

This is why the whole thing needs reformed, properly, not with random adjustments which have not properly been thought through.

You wouldn't get pip with "extremely mild ASD". Whatever that is

Here's more about how the walking criteria changed from DLA to PIP

The Personal Independence Payment (PIP) significantly reduced the walking distance considered for enhanced mobility compared to Disability Living Allowance (DLA). Under DLA, 50 meters was the threshold for the higher rate mobility component, while PIP lowered this to 20 meters. This means that someone who could walk more than 20 meters but less than 50 meters under DLA, and potentially qualify for the higher rate, may now only receive the standard rate under PIP.

Also I am not sure about DLA and aids but the distances with PIP are with or without an aid such as a walker.

@Tigerrag I know someone who did and I have seen the DD's blue badge. There will always be people who know how to abuse the system.

ASD is a spectrum there are milder and more severely affected people. Surely you knew that though you are just provoking by saying "whatever that is"

The DD is 20 and went on holiday with friends to Spain last year. She likes parties and travels by bus, and does loads of things people with more severe autism can't. That is clearly very mild autism. No?

So people with physical disabilities already lost out going from DLA to Pip and will lose out further with the new 4 point rule.

But why there seems to have been no real look into PIP and DLA and learning from that and how to move forward, I don't know, rather than this knee jerk reaction about saving money.

The mother of the 'mild' ASD person could have exaggerated on her assessment, I suppose. The assessments themselves probably need changing, with DLA it was mainly based on the diagnosis and doctors comments.

@Orangesandlemons77 Yes, I do think that is what happened.

That is also why I believe the diagnosis and Dr comments should play a much larger role than currently.

DLA sounds better in that regard.

Oh I see. Mild Autism is how YOU see it. Clearly if someone receives pip, it's not extremely mild

If someone's got a blue badge, their disability really isn't mild. Have you also seen how difficult it is to qualify for pip?

I also don't know of anyone with "extremely mild Autism" who got a diagnosis. You have to prove it causes you difficulties

Obviously as you've been through any of those assessments you'd know that

@MrsKypp you are free to report to DWP if you believe fraud

National policy is not decided on your personal views and anecdotal unsubstantiated data.

The wider (than your personal circle and your personal views) issue relates broadly to whether the proposed action targets the presumed problem. And when you get to the nitty gritty whether you are pushing genuinely disabled folk into poverty to cut costs rather than making cuts elsewhere. Raising taxes across the board (if you can’t countenance taxing the rich) spreads the pain of loss. Targeting the disabled leads to individuals and family’s losing a substantial amount of yearly income because there’s less of them to spread the cost.

Or she has difficulties that the poster isn't aware of

@TigerRag

Do you think nobody ever exaggerates on the PIP form?

Do you think 100% of applicants are completely honest?

No I have not applied for PIP for myself you are correct.

The DD is a family member of mine, and I have seen her blue badge. Her mother told me her DD has ASD. I know the DD and have done her whole life.

There was no f2f assessment of the DD and the PIP money goes into the mother's account.

I think you can get the blue badge by having the PIP can't you, not sure

The mother would have been the appointee

yes @Orangesandlemons77 correct.

The DD blue badge: the mother got it with the high level PIP. There was no test for the blue badge in her case.

Whatever. The person assessing her, obviously felt that she met the threshold for enhanced, which is not easy to get, regardless of what some people may say. She got enhanced in both categories as well, so maybe there is more to her disability, than you are aware of. Who knows how much support she needed from her friends to be able to go on holiday etc.

@MrsKyppeither contact DWP and report suspected fraud (reports from medical experts may make you look demented) or give it up. Stop suggesting that proposed changes are rational based on your view.