PIP cuts- what happens next?

[Orangesandlemons77]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp3q7584v07o

So this goes to a vote next month? What then does anyone know please?

Keir is being so disingenuous by linking receiving PIP, and being out of work like that. How he can stand there, and say such things, it is so very poor. I have no faith in the Man, and see that he seems determined to push this thing through, no matter what. I think that it will happen, but we will have to wait, and see, of course. The fallout will be immense, if it does, and the added strain that it will add to Councils alone will become apparent swiftly.

I don't think it will pass even if he does go ahead, with the amount of MPs who have signed this amendment. And it seems they won't agree to the conservative demands so they will also vote against.

Apparently the Speaker Lindsay Hoyle has the power to select the amendment or not.

Its selection may be more likely now that it is a ‘cross party amendment’ with signatures from MPs in the DUP and SDLP, plus a few independents, according to the BBC News report (latest).

I have said on these threads, countless times, that PIP, and the whole process of it needs reform. But not how the Labour party is trying to do it. Maybe the Minister trying to push this nonsense through, should sit down with different groups of disabled people, to actually hear their stories. Really listen, and see them.

Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham urged the leadership to think again last night, joining London Mayor Sadiq Khan in speaking out.
'The Government needs to take a more unifying path... there is genuine, deep anxiety about these proposals,' Mr Burnham told the BBC's Newsnight.

Sorry for DM link

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14845097/Starmer-vote-benefits-Rachel-Reeves-Labour-rebels-MPs-amendment-Andy-Burnham-revolt.html

Definitely

What it extraordinary is that Cabinet members like Rachel Reeves and Wes Streeting are reported to be ringing round signatories to ask them to remove their names!

But only one Labour signatory thus far has acquiesced. There are still 122+ Labour signatories, 130+ in total, with the Tories playing ‘blink’.

The claim that 1,000 new people are claiming pip a day is misleading. It will also include DLA to pip transfers

(I'm unsure on the numbers transferring)

Is it maybe new PIP applications? I think around 43% of new claims are successful

Yes I’d like to see those figures broken down into

completely brand new claims
DLA to PIP claims
PIP renewals
PIP changes of circumstances
PIP reclaims
PIP ‘other’ (with details)

Total number of MPs now 134 apparently

https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/pip-cuts-latest-127-rebel-mps,-tory-offer,-starmer-unmoving,-timms-on-tv

The other overarching thing that is worrying about PIP and the DWP is the huge extent to which policy is being driven, and has been driven for nearly fifteen years, by civil servants not ministers.

And civil servants are currently demonstrating they care not a jot about women, women with disabilities & differences, and women’s rights.

The MP said: "I think it’s one of the most pernicious bills I've seen in my time in parliament. It's going to cause so much harm to those who need help the most.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/it-beggars-belief-its-going-31922428?fbclid=IwY2xjawLIn2FleHRuA2FlbQIxMQBicmlkETE3dG8xdXpYMTBkRVNDT0dhAR7heuBAdqUWHQzfO398KxtBSLbDiZYSWMYbubOFoRwfZtQkdqdTycilFtvsdw_aem_AEC6qRO4tJxpE871andv9w

Stephen Timms, the DWP disability minister currently working on rewriting the PIP eligibility criteria, is to face questioning by the commons work and pensions committee from 9.43am today. You can watch him on parliament tv

Hmm, should be interesting

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy4ymj00px7o

Starmer could kill off welfare bill today in face of growing Labour rebellion

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/uk-politics-latest-starmer-migrant-labour-3764661

I think a lot of the people adding to the vastly increased numbers claiming PIP are NEETS and they certainly need help getting into work. But where is that help?

It's really tough on people aged 18-25 right now. It is depressing for them when there's no work and some have degrees but still can't get jobs.

The help to find employment should come first, then cutbacks: not cutbacks first. Plus it needs to be targeted very carefully not like they're doing with the 4 point minimum fiasco.

But you can claim pip and work? So I don't understand what you're saying? But yes I do agree there should be more support

And why is there this misinformation circulating that there are huge numbers of 'NEETS' in 'depressing' circumstances claiming PIP, or young people with a bit of anxiety?

What I would really like to see is a clear break-down and analysis of how such a young person would successfully meet the PIP criteria, descriptor by descriptor, to receive any award at all in the Daily Living category under the current rules.

I'd like to issue that as a challenge.

Because I don't think these young people would qualify, not in a month of Sundays. It's bullshit.

The real losers, as we now know, are going to be physically disabled women aged 30 years and older, many with very good NI and tax records under their belts, who are sometimes struggling (or who have struggled) with their own caring responsibilities for others, who are now going to be quadruply shafted.

And as pp have said, over and over again - PIP isn't about getting people with disabilities into work, it's about keeping us in work.

Yes I know that!

But it's what Starmer and Labour are saying isn't it: that the benefits are trapping people from going to work.

I think that NEETS who can't find work and sit at home all day will - because of this situation - be at an increased risk of anxiety and depression. Rates of anxiety and depression have risen dramatically, as have the number of young people unable to find work as have the numbers of young people claiming PIP.

So I was saying that before they cut any benefits, they need to ensure that the people they are saying are trapped out of work because of the benefits actually have a job. They are going the wrong way about it. But I do agree that NEETs in particular need a hell of a lot more help finding work.

Bit more here about who will lose out

https://www.bigissue.com/news/social-justice/disability-benefit-cuts-pip-heart-disease-arthritis-hiv/

@Orangesandlemons77

Exactly!!

It's not the people Labour are saying are trapped out of work who will be affected the most (and they have mentioned NEETs as being too numerous and in need of work) but different people entirely.

They are going about it the wrong way.

Listened to most of the committee debate. There has so far been no recognition that people who score above 12 but less than 4 in one category don’t need PIP and that those in the LWRC category are not there because their ability to find work is nonexistent. Timms is given an easy ride. Stop talking about everyone else with ‘mild’ disability who hypothetically might benefit at some point in the future and talk about those that will lose out, and soon. The idea that the NHS and support to work will fund daily taxis to work and an hour per week of therapy for those in work that fund it currently through PIP is laughable. Within 13 weeks!

@PocketSand but surely the people with mild disability who can truly be helped by finding work are the ones who should be helped NOW to find work and THEN the PIP for those people can be reduced / withrawn.

That's what I was saying - the people who will actually be affected are not in that category. And that the govt are doing it the wrong way round.

That article says this about who the cuts will affect:

" certain types of cancer, including breast cancer, bowel cancer and cervical cancer."

Breast and bowel cancers are actually extremely varied. Some people with, for example, breast cancer have a lumpectomy and that is it. Others have two years of chemotherapy, more radical surgery, and other treatments such as radiotherapy (different amounts), immune therapies etc. There are different types (such as hormone, not hormone related, genetic, not genetic etc) , grades, stages, so it would be very ignorant to judge all bowel or all breast cancer patients as if these cancers were somehow the same thing for each patient. This applies to many, many cancers. And that is when the cancer is stages I-III. At stage IV the difference can be huge and for most, no longer curable.

Leukaemia is another example, there are acute types, chronic types and all with very different treatments and prognoses.

Same with MS. Different types have different prognoses and some are highly treatable others not.

I thoroughly dislike putting such diverse people into categories based on ignorance. It infuriates me actually.