Neurodiversity support thread: Women with suspected/self-diagnosed/diagnosed ASC & ADHD

[EauRouge]

No sign of our own forum yet, so for now here's a new support thread for women on the autistic spectrum and/or with ADHD. Newbies more than welcome!

The old thread is here.

Here are some helpful links for newbies:

List of female AS traits by Tania Marshall.

List of female traits by Everyday Aspergers

Musings of an Aspie- Cynthia Kim's blog (one of the few sources I have found about being a parent with Aspergers)

Autistic Women's Collective

Recognising ADHD in women from ADDitude Magazine

Resources for women with ADHD from ADDitude Magazine

Adult ADHD support (coming soon by the looks of things)

Books

Aspergirls by Rudy Simone

You Mean I'm Not Lazy, Stupid or Crazy?!: The Classic Self-help Book for Adults with Attention Deficit Disorder by Kate Kelly (I haven't read this one but I have heard it recommended many times- apologies if it's no good!)

I took off Tony Attwood because it was about people with autism rather than for people with autism. Anyone else got any book recommendations?

Online tests

(Online tests are not 100% certain but can give you a very good idea and a starting point for talking to your GP if you're seeking diagnosis)

RDOS Aspergers quiz (the best one IMO)

AQ test

ADHD test

ADHD questionnaire for women

If any of those don't work, it's because I'm cooking the DDs' dinner and I'm shit at multitasking. What's that burning smell?

Ooh, I've done the Myers-Briggs test too. I'm an INFJ. Apparently this is a common one for aspies.

That's so true about the parenting camps. I was always baffled by it because I didn't really give a shit what other people were doing. I was a bit surprised when people were so adamant that I was doing it wrong and that I ought to be doing it their way.

I ended up proper PFB but I don't get parenting camps. Or any kind of camp really. I never really understood the type of teenage rebellion that involved wearing the same clothes as other people.

I also have a problem using vocabulary that marks you as a member of a group. You know like work environments have their own vocabulary for certain things, can't remember the specific name of the words are, but it feels like if you end up using it you've been assimilated.

Oh I was well into that kind of teenage thing. I always wanted to fit in so it was great when I thought I'd worked out how to do that. I read a book recently, it was called "This Song Will Save Your Life". The first chapter described how the main character so badly wanted to be popular that she spent an entire summer learning how to be "cool". She put all of her clothes in bags and put them in the loft and bought all new clothes which were in fashion, though she found them boring. She watched all the programmes, which she hated, learnt the storylines, learnt the bands and the gossip and celebrities. And then when she started school again in the summer she was immediately marked out as uncool because everyone else had a tan but she'd spent all summer inside researching everything.

It was so painfully accurate a summing-up of adolescence for me that I bought the book based on it.

This might help, Lashes: www.preludecharacteranalysis.com/types/enfp/vs/infp

I don't get involved in "camps" either, I don't really fit in with anything. I am unique! (Yet dull)
I'm INFJ too.
Antiquity, I've only ever worn branded crocs because I know they're comfortable.
The Birkenstocks look nice Polter.

My mum is INFP (I'm about 95% sure) and I am ENFP and there is a huge difference between us.

Been told on another thread I might be a T not an F...INFP vs ENFP vs INTP VS ENTP...hmmmm...very confused now!

I was like that as a teen too, Bertie. I suppose my special interest back then was being cool. I would copy stuff from magazines, rock stars etc and then get confused because it wasn't cool when I did it and people still took the piss out of me.

Ooh which thread, Lashes? I will go and argue the finer points on there and stop hijacking this one, sorry Polter We're talking about Myers-Briggs which is a personality test thing. I find it fascinating.

I think that broadly parents of NT kids have choice in that for NT kids most approaches will work to the extent that they aren't usually disastrous. But the thing is that the parenting camp thing only really works until they're about three or four anyway, mainly because the things that mark out different camps are all related to babies and toddlers and once they're in school you can't tell and it doesn't matter anyway, and partly because when they are little and especially with NT kids, pretty much any "theory" you choose to do will work as long as you believe in it, because none of the theories are based on random choices, they're all things which work in one way or another. I don't know if it's a modern parenting thing or an instinctive thing or what, but everything seems so important at that point, or it did to me. Like, I really thought it would matter if I worded things in a certain way or put the cot in a certain position or - just even weaned on purees or finger foods. It doesn't, and you lose that level of control when they get older and you realise it probably wasn't that important anyway. I guess that with ND/SN kids you lose the control much more suddenly and obviously, because there's a way that you need to do things, and it does matter. I don't worry as much as DS gets older that I'm getting it all wrong, because I'm more able to recognise that there's only so much you can really get wrong, anyway.

Bertie

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2415025-AIBU-to-think-people-should-say-what-they-fucking-mean

I posted about getting frustrated with NTs expecting people to follow illogical norms someone's said it might be an f v t thingy

DH is INTJ. To an absolute T. It's scary, but brilliant, watching him. It's funny because often we are such polar opposites but there are moments when we absolutely perfectly mesh together. I'm absolutely fascinated by the endless problem solving he seems to do, because problem solving is my total weakness. But as soon as he does it, I can follow it and it's easier. He needs me to shake up his sometimes rigid thinking (he doesn't know this but he DOES ) and I need him to keep me on the straight and narrow. We're both unashamedly blunt, though, it's funny. He'll only be blunt with people he knows well (introvert) but he doesn't see the point in sugar coating. He'll either bullshit or hit you with it. Whereas I have no filter and tend to splurge whatever I am thinking to whoever is listening, whether I'm supposed to or not. That's where we clash, and then the other obvious one where he gets frustrated with my lack of organisation and I get frustrated with his (pointless, IMO) need for order and finality.

I'm supposed to be going to bed so will try to find your point on the thread later, Lashes, but it might be an ADHD thing rather than an F/T one, apparently it's common for ADHD (and perhaps ND folk in general) to have a different perspective on social norms and wonder why the fuck everyone follows them so blindly, it's a combination of super-fast processing brain unpicking things, and a consequence of often finding it easier to do things in a different way to the "norm", which leads you to wonder why a norm is supposedly normal in the first place.

consequence of often finding it easier to do things in a different way to the "norm", which leads you to wonder why a norm is supposedly normal in the first place.

Yes! I'm trying to find out why the norm exists and people keep saying it just does and it's so frustrating! I also don't get people blindly following it, I tend to think "how can you not think for yourself?!" I don't mean that in s way to bash people who follow them just in my head it makes no sense. It would make sense if it was an ADHD or a ND thing

lashes it is an NT/ND thing. Many of us have tried to tell you that lots of times. NT people aren't just blindly following it, it makes sense to them and makes things easier for them.

It's like asking 'why do you speak English?' when they've been brought up in the UK. They just picked it up as they went along!! And the majority of people around them understand them, and it's a huge effort and never quite feels natural to learn another language.

They just picked it up as they went along!!

This is what I was getting at. I know it's something people who are NT do but I was trying to find out why it makes sense to them. But I don't think many of them even think about it, they just...do it. Which confuses me even more lol

I think growing up in a family where NT is the rarer type (I can't actually think of anyone who I could confidently tell you is not ND!) has meant I'm much more used to a straightforward approach, even more so than a lot of other people who aren't NT. I find people's reasoning fascinating though. Even though to me it makes no sense, they seem to find me as illogical as I find them!

I am ISFJ it seems. Until a couple of weeks ago I thought I was an extrovert. Online research suggests I'm a sociable introvert which makes so much more sense to me!

I get some idea about NT from my family but I struggle to understand work colleagues. It's all false smiles and hidden meaning.

I don't think that NT people do particularly do things in the easiest way for them. Most people do just blindly follow along - it's not a "stupid" thing, it's just that it makes sense on an evolutionary level. We learn by observing others primarily. Or perhaps, NT people do and ND don't. But in any case the default NT model is to look (and this is all subconscious) at how other people do things and deduce that that is how it is done. And that does make sense - if you see somebody doing something and they are successful, it's logical to then try that way yourself and assume it will be successful for you, too. Then most people stick with that first attempt because it doesn't occur to them to try it another way. I'm not talking about hidden meaning stuff here, though, just social convention like basically deciding what's "normal". With the hidden meaning stuff, that's just a language thing that people learn as they grow up and innately understand rather than thinking about it too much. So yes it's like saying "Why do you speak English?" well, because that's what you learned growing up. Or I suppose it's like saying "Why is a pig called a pig?" It just is - somebody decided that would be a good name and it stuck and at this point it's called a pig because if you tried to call a pig a nebworth nobody would have a clue what you were on about. Even slang has to exist in some kind of fairly large capacity before it works.

And YY, growing up in a ND family (though none of us were really aware of that until recently) means that I am used to the more straightforward style of communication of people who don't buy into that kind of stuff. It causes no end of issues between my family and DH's family. They have all kinds of incomprehensible rules and anybody who breaks them is "rude", DH (less often now, but still) frequently tells me something is "extremely rude!" and I'm baffled, like, um, what? To me, being rude is insulting somebody or directly and purposefully inconveniencing them. I just shrug and don't worry about it too much.

Bertie, thanks, that's a really good explanation!

I grew up in an ND family too, so really have limited experience with the NT way. DP is also ND ehich helps

To me, being rude is insulting somebody or directly and purposefully inconveniencing them.

That's my opinion too

I'm reading your other thread but I'm feeling less and less like posting on it the more I read. I'm noticing a really unpleasant trend recently - with your thread here and someone else from this thread recently posted a "please explain this to me" kind of thread. In the past, there have been loads of helpful discussion threads. It was one a "chronically late" person started to ask for tips about being on time that first alerted me to the possibility that I might have ADHD, in fact. But now it seems that as soon as somebody asks for things to be explained, everyone has to be rude, abrasive and dismissive, claim they are making it up and/or being stupid, just pretending to misunderstand, etc. And then when ADHD/ASD are mentioned some posters get REALLY nasty. It didn't used to be like that.

Possibly it's the way the OPs have been worded. Like, if ever there's a "Please explain to me why anybody would choose not to breastfeed" thread, the OP will be crushed under a ton of flaming bricks, and I can understand that (though I also understand where the OP of those kinds of threads are coming from, and it's not judginess) - but how come I've seen helpful interesting discussion of "What is the reason for this odd bit of social conduct, then?" lots in the past, but the recent ones where ND have been mentioned and people have got angry have really shocked and upset me. You think on MN there is a certain understanding of SN kinds of issues, but it seems that there isn't, really. Perhaps it's just AIBU. TBH I rarely if ever venture in there any more. It used to be alright but it has become more "fight club" than ever now. I would suggest posting in Relationships or perhaps Chat another time, and see if the responses feel different.

Oh but anyway, the thing I wanted to post was this: It was actually linked to in I think the third reply to your post, but it was only an article discussing this article, and I think this original is definitely worth reading, so in case you missed it (I think it's very useful for all NDs.)

ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421

Oh - and it also may be worth checking out Reddit for asking these kinds of questions. I'm not a huge fan of Reddit in general (it's too populated by entitled white blokes aged 15-30 for my liking) but it seems very good on these kinds of issues especially if you pick the right subreddit.

And if the hashtag thing doesn't work, it's the part that starts "This is a classic case of Ask Culture meets Guess Culture".

And Lashes - have you ever considered studying Sociology? I think you'd be great at it. You have that drive to go "But why? Why is this like it is, how did it develop, what purpose did it originally serve?" whereas most people just say, er, because it is? And aren't the slightest bit interested in why.

Another point about Myers-Briggs is that the last letter (J or P) refers to which function is strongest. J means decision making is strongest so the F or T part, and P means that analysing situations is strongest, so the N or S part. Often, the weakest function is harder to differentiate. The difference between ENTP and ENFP is subtle, but the key is that ENFPs want everyone to get along and see each others' point of view and everything to work smoothly whereas ENTPs are more about understanding things for themselves. See here: www.preludecharacteranalysis.com/types/ENFP/vs/ENTP

There's also something where the intro/extra function flips, I think for the opposite of your weak function, but I haven't read enough about this yet to understand it properly. But I believe it means something along the lines of - the ENFP has an introverted Thinking function which means that the logical side is very much turned inwards. The feeling is outwardly expressed so they are sensitive to criticism and others' needs, but they are inwardly constantly questioning. Alternatively the ENTP would be outwardly logical and fact based and keep feelings close to their chest. (Although, as I said, I'm really really rusty on this part.)

Sorry I should have done this bit on the other thread, shouldn't I?

One last link and then I will leave it and if anyone wants a myers-briggs discussion we could always start a new thread, before I bore you all to death.

www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/understanding-mbti-type-dynamics/