Live webchat with Amnesty International Tuesday 4th Feb, 11-12pm

[KatieMumsnet]

Following the leaking of an Amnesty International policy document 'Decriminalisation of Sex Work: Policy Background', which argues that men who buy sex are ‘exercising their autonomy’ and should be allowed to do so ‘free from government interference’ there has been considerable discussion on the site and requests for a webchat.

Today, Kate Allen, Director of Amnesty International UK will be here between 11-12pm to answer your questions.

Please do join us live on Tuesday or ask your question on this thread in advance. Just a quick reminder that it’s one question per person; take a look at our webchat guidelines, here.

Best

MNHQ

[migsy86]

jesrichardson.com/prostitution-laws/

That explains how I feel about it all. Wider issues at the root of it all but ultimately it needs to be legal and safer for all involved.

[horsetowater]

It would be a lot more legal and safer if people weren't involved in it at all though Migsy. You could go straight, go and study (you get grants and childcare), or just work in a shop like millions of others. It's your choice really.

I wonder what would happen if there was a prostitute strike?

Probably not a lot. Men don't need this and women certainly don't.

[Beachcomber]

Migsy, I think the orange analogy doesn't really work. And it is chillingly dehumanizing to boot.

Oranges being sold illegally can't humanely be compared to trafficking of persons.

[rhinoceer]

The article makes good points. There are more laws to the Swedish model than just the buying of sex.

"Legalization of Selling Oranges – Swedish Oranges
I am free to sell my mature oranges! Hooray, mimosas for everyone! Wait. You can’t buy my oranges, because that is illegal. When I legally sell my oranges, law enforcement waits around the corner from my fruit stand to arrest you for buying my oranges; making it more difficult for me to sell oranges. If I pay rent with money from selling oranges or sell oranges from a rented apartment, that is illegal because my landlord profited from my orange sales and I face eviction. If I hire someone to help protect my orange grove, that is illegal also. If I decide I need a partner to help protect my oranges and they also sell oranges, that is illegal because orange co-ops are illegal. If I sell oranges to provide for my children, I may be deemed an unfit parent and lose custody of my children. If I see someone being forced to sell oranges, if someone smashes or steals my oranges, I am not inclined to report for fear of further harassment of my orange buyers by law enforcement. If I am poor, I may not have access to tests or protective barriers to protect my oranges from deadly diseases. Legalizing the selling of oranges doesn’t make my life safer, as long as it’s illegal for people to buy my oranges."

[rhinoceer]

Do you have any comment to make on the fact the Nordic model can cause Swedish sex workers to be evicted? Or the fact their children can be taken off them?

[rhinoceer]

Or the fact since the law was passed charities are no longer allowed to give out free condoms to either sex workers or clients? Or to offer health/safety advice of any sort since that would be "facilitating prostitution"?

[FloraFox]

Children are removed from their parents based on a consideration of the child's interests, same here as in Sweden.

Women in prostitution can be evicted in any country. Most landlords would not want prostitution being carried out in their premises.

Charities should not be facilitating prostitution, nothing wrong with that. If this is such lovely easy money, why the need for free condoms?

The Swedish model includes exit services to help women move out of prostitution.

[Beachcomber]

Does anyone else get sick of rhinoceer asking so many questions considering he rarely answers any of those asked to him?

It's very rude entitled behavior.

[rhinoceer]

Petite Jasmine was a sex worker murdered in Sweden. She reported her abusive ex to the police yet they took her children off her and gave them to him.

Shows what priorities the Swedish police have if they think children are better placed with an abusive spouse (who later becomes a murderer) than -gasp- a prostitute.

[rhinoceer]

There are many services in the UK that hand out free condoms to gay people. Is that "facilitating homosexuality"? Should that stop?

[BriarRainbowshimmer]

[rhinoceer]

"Women in prostitution can be evicted in any country."

In the UK where the Nordic model is not implemented it is not illegal for a home to be used to sell sexual services (if it is only being used by one sex worker).

[rhinoceer]

"The Swedish model includes exit services to help women move out of prostitution."

There's no reason why we have to implement the Nordic model to have exit services.

[SabrinaMulhollandJjones]

rhinoceer, it's obvious that you are getting fairly desperate now, but it is heinous to use a case of horrific domestic violence against a woman to further your pro-prostitution agenda.

You'll find that feminists campaign about domestic violence too.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

You didn't just equate prostitution with homosexual sex like KateAmnesty, did you?

[FloraFox]

Two women each week are killed by their abusive partners in the UK. Petite Jasmine is the only woman in prostitution killed in the past 10 years in Sweden and she was killed by her ex-partner, not by a punter or a pimp, who are the largest source of danger to women in prostitution.

Homosexuality is not prostitution.

Many landlords would evict a woman in prostitution even though it is not illegal for a home to be used for prostitution.

[rhinoceer]

"horrific domestic violence against a woman "

And that woman was a sex worker in Sweden.

[AnyaKnowIt]

rhinoceer Thu 06-Feb-14 22:05:29
"Women in prostitution can be evicted in any country."

In the UK where the Nordic model is not implemented it is not illegal for a home to be used to sell sexual services (if it is only being used by one sex worker).

My landlord can evict me for running any kind of business. Its in my tenancy agreement.

[migsy86]

Is rhinoceer a man? Do you see prostitiutes?

[Beachcomber]

BriarRainbowshimmer, thanks, that's a great link, the police officer is very clear.

[Beachcomber]

Good luck with getting your questions answered migsy. He was asked a simple straightforward (non personal) question about a dozen times on another thread; he never answered.

[FloraFox]

migsy we get these types on MN every so often. They are always men and although they sometimes claim not to be punters or evade the question, they are always incredibly invested in reading pimp lobby "research" which is usually a ham-fisted attempt to denigrate other people's research. They generally haven't actually read any source material but just repeat the summaries they get from websites, which are almost always incorrect if you actually read the research in question. They are usually highly entitled in the way the expect MNers to do their research for them or answer their questions even when they are pointed to threads where it is already discussed. There could be a bingo card for them. It would have:

• lies about what Rhoda Grant said at a meeting in Scotland
  
• lies about Melissa Farley (with a bonus point for the lie about rape jokes on her website)
  
• repeating something said by the Blessed Brooke (Magnanti) - whom they always call Dr Magnanti
  
• Petite Jasmine
  
• the Swedish model doesn't work (repeat until blue in face)
  
• NZ and Australia are perfect (repeat until red in face)
  
• misunderstanding the nature of socio-political research
  
• drawing ludicrous conclusions from research papers
  
• lots of talk about women's choices, no talk of men's choices
  
• "you're just a prude who doesn't like sex"
  
• disabled men need prostitutes
  

We're almost there with rhino but I don't think he's mentioned Blessed Brooke yet.

Sometimes they get bored and go away quickly but others keep cropping up like a bad rash.