Live webchat with Amnesty International Tuesday 4th Feb, 11-12pm

[KatieMumsnet]

Following the leaking of an Amnesty International policy document 'Decriminalisation of Sex Work: Policy Background', which argues that men who buy sex are ‘exercising their autonomy’ and should be allowed to do so ‘free from government interference’ there has been considerable discussion on the site and requests for a webchat.

Today, Kate Allen, Director of Amnesty International UK will be here between 11-12pm to answer your questions.

Please do join us live on Tuesday or ask your question on this thread in advance. Just a quick reminder that it’s one question per person; take a look at our webchat guidelines, here.

Best

MNHQ

*"The use of prostitutes in Sweden has reduced,""

On the streets anyway, yes.

No one got rich, women who were raped got help

And you are disparaging the organisation that helped them?

Classy.

I'm not engaging with this time waster anymore.

As for the Swedish model. Well, the authorities over there are the first to say that their approach is a holistic long term one.

It is about changing attitudes as to what is socially acceptable behavior and what is not. In Sweden, they see a marked difference in support for the model which varies according to generation.

The latest generation of young adults see the buying of sex as something that is deviant and highly sexist. They have grown up with legislation that communicates that society will not tolerate men buying sexual access to women.

The success or not of the Swedish model may only really be able to be assessed in another generation or so. However I currently see no reason to think that the police and the government are lying as to the current situation.

"So yes, you will still be able to find an escort in Stockholm"

Then what good is the law? How will the client be caught? If the client is caught what happens if both he and the escort both deny money was exchanged for sex?

Do you see how difficult this would be to enforce?

Yes rhino - and indoor prostitution has not increased since before the laws were introduced - unlike in Denmark where it is decriminalised. Trafficking has decreased. Demand has decreased.

So prostitution has neither been 'pushed underground' as the nordic model's opponents predicted, or increased, as is the case in other comparable decriminalised countries.

Sweden are managing it pretty well, rhino.

You might say why does any crime exist, when there are laws against it?

I don't think it is some sort of terrible injustice, that pimp lobbies arguing for the decriminalization of pimping, aren't being showered with philanthropic funding.

You make claims about how great Sweden's law supposedly is but can you back them up?

Yy beach. Drink driving has shown a similar generational change I think - my dad took a long time to only have one if he was driving and that was more fear of the law than ingrained - whereas it's natural for everyone I know to assume a soft drinker is driving, to not have any drinks at all if they are driving etc.

Already have.

I've shown the figures here.

The evidence of rhino being a total fuckwit continues to mount...

Your figures only refer to street prostitution.

I'll bite.

Rhino

Just did your google search for escorts in
Sweden 1,420,000
Oslo 4,850,000
Berlin 5,630,000
London 5,260,000

Exactly TheDoctrineOfSnatch. Indoor smoking is another example that is used of legislation shaping societal attitude.

I'm of the generation where you smoked in cinemas, on buses, in planes, in cars with children, etc.

My kids would be to hear that that ever even happened.

But it doesn't happen overnight. And there were plenty naysayers saying it would never work. They were wrong of course.

Yes, Flora. I don't think we need an independent government report on that.

Re-read my post at 21:00 rhino.

Perhaps it's also worth pointing out Scandinavian countries are very sparsely populated. Sweden doesn't exactly compare with London.

And what is ghastly is all the flat earther arseholes who have little more to add than 'prostitution will never go away' (usually said as though they are quite pleased about this).

Well no, you misogynist knobber, it won't with that sort of attitude.

YY Beach about the smoking thing.

I remember seeing footage of a 60's BBC political/chat show type thing, and the presenter was smoking. You can't believe that now.

Perhaps it's also worth pointing out Scandinavian countries are very sparsely populated. Sweden doesn't exactly compare with London.

And (IMHO) I think if countries with large densely populated cities were to attempt to enforce the "Nordic model" they would fail even more so than Sweden, Norway or Iceland.

ok. Fair enough.

Population of Sweden 9.517 million (2012)
Population of Norway 5.019 million (2012)

stockholm 1,420,000 hits
Oslo 4,850,000 hits

Care to give us a made up hypothesis?

Yes Sabrina, I remember going to the doctor as a child and the doctor was smoking a fag in his office. I remember going to my mum's work as a school secretary and she used to smoke in her office (although only on her break).

Such behavior would be inconceivable now.

I would argue that as Sweden has had a 10 year start on Norway, it would seem it has had the desired effect of drastically reducing the numbers. Perhaps for the reasons stated already.

The idea of using prostitutes is now considered by the more younger generations to be something to avoid, to pity, to believe is wrong.

The status of the 'oldest profession' ought now to be confronted, just like the status of smoking, drink driving, beating children, homophobia have been changed in our culture.

There is clearly a shift in attitude now, so that many people believe that prostitution is unnecessary, ultimately abusive and lacks integrity as work.

The pro-legalisation brigade have come just at a time when the old attitudes were changing.

KateMumsnet thank you for clearing up the double posts thing. I think this has got to be one of the most challenging and divisive debates that women have at present. I hope there is another opportunity to discuss it again in the future.

It'll take a generation or two for the Swedish laws to really take effect, as I said earlier.

It's comforting to hear that already, in Sweden, the younger generation are showing attitudes of supporting gender equality and seeing the damage the sex industry does to all women and girls.

Wish that the same could happen here.