Jewish Orthodox mum AMA

[jewishorthomum]

I'm a 29 yr old Jewish Orthodox religious mum of 2 little boys. Is there anything you'd like to ask about Orthodox Jewish life?
Kill my time whilst I'm waiting to be called in for an appointment.
(When I get called in for my app I'll have to run but will try respond later if there are questions.)

Is it as easy to convert to Judaism as portrayed in 'sex and the city'?

Reform/Liberal Jews may not 'look' religious but they can be practicing their religion in their own way and religion can be just as important to them, they just attach less importance to the ritual requirements..Masorti and modern orthodox Jews may not look as 'religious' as the Charedi etc. (I know quite a few MO women who don't cover their hair) but they tend to also keep kosher and Shabbat (niddah is quite a private matter) so I wouldn't really say they are any less religious.

Most Jews I know (I am liberal but my DH grew up modern orthodox) actually don't look that different from regular esp the women. So unless you delve into their personal lives, eating habits, it's quite hard to know what level of religious observance they have. I imagine it's harder to tell for well known people and celebs as they would want to keep that private. I know quite a few well known people (in British public life) who go to my synagogue but most people would not know they practice their religion.

I am a convert and I converted in the liberal tradition. I went to a year or so of weekly classes on Hebrew and religious studies, attended services regularly, wrote a 1500 word thesis on a topic of my choice, went before a Jewish court to ascertain my suitability. My MIL was an orthodox convert, she lived with a religious family for 3 years, was rejected 3 times by the rabbinic court as was the tradition, learnt Hebrew and also went to classes (which she had to pay for on top;£10 per hour in the 1980s!). my conversion cost £500 but all classes were included..

I used to live in Stamford Hill and when I passed Orthodox Jewish men in the street they would cross over. When I tried to say hello to neighbours they totally ignored me. Some looked disgusted. Why is it deemed ok to treat others this way?

There's an old saying: two Jews, three opinions
We like to chip in.

I've been watching the Tik Toks from Miriam, the Orthodox Jew lately. I've found her really educational.
https://www.tiktok.com/@miriamezagui?lang=en

Thanks for sharing your lives too.

Thank you for your explanation of nida @EllaDisenchanted. I'd been thinking it sounded a bit unhealthy and now I think the opposite - that the rest of us could learn from it tbh.

Do the concepts of nida continue past menopause even though obviously the fact of menstruation ceases to be an issue? And if so, how do you go about that/what are the rules?

it may be the community. I am Jewish but don't look conventionally Jewish in appearance (east asian). I used to live in Hendon and always said shabbat shalom to the orthodox jewish men and they always responded with a 'Shabbat Shalom'.

I don’t know if this is a question as such or a discussion starter, and I want to word this as sensitively as possible…

I am a black lady, who has spent most part of my adult life living in Upper Clapton. I felt like I was living alongside a very secular community, as opposed to with, there was little to no interaction but it was relatively peaceful.

In recent years however there has been a shift, there seems to be a narrative developing of Black and Jewish people not liking one another. There was the incident of a family doing black face in SH and being photographed laughing and mocking locals, but then there have been the outbursts of Wiley, Kayne and most recently (North Hackney MP!!!) Diane Abbot. What’s your feeling about this? Is it just media lies spurring hate and division, or something more to it? I fear that the media (backed by the government) have taken two pockets of society and deliberately tried to manipulate them. I no longer live near SH, it became too unpleasant and quite uncomfortable. The local paper constantly reporting racially aggravated crimes, it was awful

@igglo - from my experience as @socialmedia23 says the level of observance depends on the person.

I’ve worked at a company where come 5pm the Jewish workers (it was owned by Jews) went straight home for Shabbat. A friend of mine is Jewish but liberal and doesn’t observe Shabbat (I asked why once and she said she liked being out on Fridays!). A Jewish male friend of mine isn’t observant at all, eats pork, does the weddings and funerals bit and says his own parents weren’t particularly observant either, they did observe Shabbat and the food rules and the festivals.

I do find in England some of the younger Jewish generation I know are more likely to marry outside of their faith and don’t practice. But then a lot do. I think it’s awful as I said previously if anti Semitic behaviour contributed to this but I think the same about anti Muslim etc behaviour.

I had to do a religious project when I was 12 at school, chose Judaism and visited the Jewish Museum in Camden, London where a lovely male worker explained a lot about Judaism to me and my mum and showed us certain exhibits. A great place for non Jews and Jewish people wishing to know more about Judaism.

That’s not really correct for Muslims either tbh.

textually Muslims can eat meat slaughtered by Jews and Christians, so Muslims can definitely eat kosher meat as the God is the same and the method of slaughter is too. Christian meat is more of a sticking point. Some say you can eat all meat in the UK for instance as it is a Christian country (state religion, vague Christian majority) but this is a minority view, especially because the method of slaughter is different

I married a secular Jew (describes himself as culturally rather than religiously Jewish). I'm a non practising Christian.

Do you view individuals like my DH as Jewish?

FWIW I wish he took a little more interest in the religion that our children know little about (Jewish side in another country).

Hi @Bigpinktrain I have also noticed this happening over the past few years and it makes me absolutely despair. I believe that it completely feeds into the white supremacist mentality and can only damage and hurt members of both the Black and Jewish communities (and also those people who are both - I know several Black or mixed-race Jews).

I think that people like Britain First, Donald Trump supporters, etc. must be laughing their heads off that they have successfully managed to pit two minority groups against each other.

Diane Abbott's awful letter was in response to an article by a brilliant Black journalist, Tomiwa Owolade, who has written a wonderful follow-up in the New Statesman (you have to register to read it, but it is worthwhile)

https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2023/04/what-diane-abbott-gets-wrong-about-racism

I think that when Jewish people and Black people work together (great examples in the article), we have great strength. It is in the interests of racists to pit different minority groups against each other. I wish that people (from both communities) would see through this and resist it.

My nana has a Jewish surname and thinks or thought that the family were Jewish (tailors, French immigrants) and her father looked Jewish, had great business acumen and had the Jewish “nose” but she never found out for definite if they were Jewish but stopped practising the religion due to anti semitic behaviour.

@GonnaGetGoingReturns I really don’t think these racial stereotypes are ok.

Sorry but no. There's either information missing or this is simply not true. I live in Stamford Hill, and while we don't generally have much to do with outsiders, nobody crosses the road just because a non Jew passes by, and almost everyone would greet back.

How do you have a funeral the day after someone’s died when there is a need for an autopsy?

Ok, maybe they’re racial stereotypes and not ok. My post can be removed if you like. The fact is she was employed prior to WW2 and was even told in confidence she was employed, because they thought she was Jewish. My nana wasn’t going to say otherwise and was quite proud of possibly being Jewish. Didn’t mean to offend anyone.

So I recently took a flight London to New York and was seated next to an older clearly orthodox Jewish man (traditional clothing and hair). I felt like he was quite uncomfortable to be seated next to me although I wasn't dressed in anything that should hopefully have made him uncomfortable (jeans/ jumper kind of thing). He fell asleep while the dinner service was on and the flight attendant asked me to let him know she'd kept his food back for him when he woke up.
When he woke up and I mentioned this to him he seemed quite... angry? insulted?... that I spoke to him and put his hand up to block my face and didn't say anything back. Did I do something wrong? I didn't touch him but I don't know if the talking alone was crossing some kind of line? Would this situation have been different if I was sat next to an orthodox woman/ was it a gender thing? Should I have tried to move seats before the flight set off so he was sat next to a man?

Many thanks for your thoughts as it's been playing on my mind if I was somehow insensitive or could have handled the flight better.

They can make exceptions if necessary, but in most cases, an autopsy is not required.

As with most things in Judaism, it's a pretty pragmatic religion.

My grandpa - strictly observant and kosher - was overseas for several years as a British soldier in WW2. He and the other Jewish soldiers were given special dispensation by their rabbis/the Jewish authorities to eat non-kosher meat while they were in the army.

Similarly, you don't have to fast on Yom Kippur if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, very ill, or if it would jeopardise your health to do so. In general, it's a pragmatic and adaptable religion.

I sort of want to ask this question too. If you can't carry things outside the home you just make your home bigger so you can carry things?

Without the eruv, wheelchair users are not allowed to ride on Shabbat or on other religious holidays

And I find this a bit weird too. A wheelchair user can't leave their home on certain days but people with the use of their legs can? Surely that can't be what God intended? I guess there weren't wheelchairs in biblical times?

Sorry, I sound flippant but I don't mean to. And I realise I'm picking a tiny part of everything that's been said here.

I have a Christian faith and struggle sometimes with the difference between what God wants from me and what has been built up around my faith by humans since biblical times. I keep going back to "What would Jesus do?" and not "What did Pope XYZ tell us we should do in the name of Jesus?" for example.

Much of your faith seems the opposite, you are keeping true to what God said and not letting it be influenced by human wants and desires, or by modern developments which might be fleeting in the grand scheme of things. And I can see that there is great peace and comfort in that.

But then there are odd things that jar, like the wheelchair and pushchair thing. We could all walk to the park but my wheelchair-using cousin would have to stay at home?

Thanks for doing an AMA 😊

I’ve always found wigs a bit confusing. I understand using a scarf, but if your wig looks really nice, why is it classed as hiding your beauty (I know some beautiful Jewish women and their wigs always look gorgeous!)?

Is it that your natural beauty is hidden (like if a religion placed importance on eyes, you could presumably wear some lovely sunglasses because the actual important bit would be covered)?

Also, are there any times when a husband could legitimately touch his wife (or mum/daughter/sister etc) when she was on her period? Apologies for being macabre, but would it be kosher if one of them was dying and they wanted to comfort them or say goodbye? Or if it was an emergency and they touched them in an attempt to save their life?

Hi there!

1. would you wear a cross body bag? [[https://www.instagram.com/p/ChqxD8Jgls5/
2. or a seat belt properly?

@Barleysugar86

Obviously I can't speak for someone else, but there's very strict separation of the genders in Judaism. Men and women have their own spaces and don't mingle just for fun.

There's no physical contact at all with unrelated persons of the opposite gender (meaning either very immediate family or spouse), and even chit chat is minimal to non existent. Many men won't even look at unrelated women.

Most orthodox men/women will do their best not to sit next to a person of the opposite gender. That's probably why he felt uncomfortable.

@Daffodilmorning

Life saving trumps almost everything, and spouses would touch if necessary.

It's a religion that has been around for a very long time and there is a whole world of trying to adapt rules that were invented for a middle eastern, desert-dwelling ancient people to the modern world. E.g. during covid there were remote/online synagogue services, and they set these up so that you could put them on and leave them running, and not have to interact or press any buttons during Shabbat/holy days.

Having said that, I think there is some truth in the 'letter versus spirit of the law' question. But I think it's better to acknowledge that there is a problem with wheelchair users not being able to join their families to go to shul, and to try to find a way around that, that doesn't contravene the law, than to insist on sticking to it regardless of how it impacts people in the modern world.