Plucking up the courage to leave.

[Bluebeanbag]

I've been in a relationship with H for 18 years and last weekend a thread on here opened my eyes to his behaviour. It was like reading a diary of my own life. For years I've known that something wasn't right but he has always successfully convinced me that I was the one at fault. At the beginning I told myself that the massive rows were part and parcel of being with someone with such a fiery temperament (and the making-up sex was so good!). I tried to absorb all the negativity for the sake of the family. I told myself that he couldn't help it; that he was damaged. But i am finally starting to see things for what they are - that he is an angry and controlling man who manipulates me into believeing that my actions are selfish and I am an 'evil bitch'. I actually feel as though I'm going crazy sometimes because he is so convincing.

So on the basis of what i have read here, my own gut feelings and some straight talking from a friend, I have decided I cannot stay any longer. I have booked an appointment with a solicitor tomorrow to get some advice about the DC and house (mortgaged together) but I need to know what questions I should ask, please. I haven't told him yet - I am utterly paralysed by fear of how he will react. He has never been physically violent towards me but his words can feel like being punched in the face and absolutely destroy me at times. Alternatively, he can sometimes go down the route of hurting himself and threatening suicide which is almost worse.

I just don't know if I can do it. I feel like all the fight has been drained out of me. How do I get it back? 😕

While Mr Bigballs (or thinks he is) was earning all this cash to pay for stuff for the FAMILY home who was looking after his children and home to allow him to do so? If you that's your fighting point for this you deserve for both you and your kids what you are 100% legally entitled too!

He keeps trying to bring you down so you will crack FUCK HIM!!!!!

Remember your end game and get focused, you have got this , today is another day and the smug bastard will think he is getting to you.

Cheesy I know but put on some ball breaking music to get your spark back.

He has fxxk all plans for the boys.

There is every chance that he will see them as little as he can and will pay for the minimum.

We read it on here all the time.
Woman accepting bad deals, the ex's are nowhere to be seen and they are so so regretful.

Also there are posters who have told of knowing their mothers accepted a bad deal and that things were harder than they should be.

Find the fight in you for your boys.

Stop discussing ANYTHING with him.
Tell him if he doesn't want mediation, then the courts wi decide.

Please do not agree to something you will bitterly regret.
Tell your solicitor if the bullying gets worse.
Call the police at any hint of aggression.

You can do this.

I'm in a very similar situation to you right this minute and believe it or not have just had pretty much the same conversation.. I'm being backed into a corner after years of abuse. I absolutely refuse to back down. I'm also having a wobble today but you know what - hell will freeze over first!! This is just another twisted tactic, I know it's hard but take no notice of this latest spanner in the works. Focus on you, the children and your end goal. Sending hugs xx

As someone who went through very similar please, please remember you aren't fighting for your future you are going to fight for your children's future. I was persuaded to sign over the marital house as he wanted to live there (I didn't) and then we would get a new mortgage for me and the children. I did get a house, no where near half the value of the old house, he had all furniture, even the children's beds because it was the right thing to do. I didn't want to be seen as the money grabbing bitch and 20 odd years later I can see what an absolute door mat I was. My children, now adults, can't believe I allowed him to deprive them and myself.

Once the house was signed over, he suddenly lost interest in shared custody etc. his finances also very suddenly changed so that maintenance was miscalculated, in his favour of course.
A friendly solicitor told me years later she always tells clients to almost remove themselves from proceedings and imagine it's a good friend in the same situation,as we are often better at giving advice than listening to ourselves.
It's going to be rubbish for a while but it will get better!

So he thinks you’re a money grabbing bitch? That alone should tell you a lot about how he really views you - and the kids. You’re really just supposed to be his skivvy and do what he says. YOU ARE NOT A MGB. You are entitled to your FAIR SHARE, why do you think the courts have considered this? You have to think of the kids and their future, and why should you sell yourselves short after all the shit you’ve had to put up with from him? He’s got you you so ground down that even now you still think you won’t be able to go on with the divorce. But oh my God - can you imagine your life if you take him back? Let the thought and fear of that give you your anger back, it really should be cold hard determination to get free of this nasty character. Don’t stop now and don’t let him and his lies into your head! 💐

You are all amazing. Thank you for the multiple head wobbles and fantastic support ❤️

I am starting to feel like I have solid ground under my feet again after a couple of days of being in freefall. I think I get very wobbly and vulnerable on 'daddy days' when I am not with the DC.

I spoke to a very feisty friend this morning which helped to relight the fire in my belly a bit. I've also had a second valuation this morning which is much more in the region I was imagining. I discussed the situation with the estate agent and he was very helpful because of previous experience with this situation. However, bit of a knob, in that he spent almost the entire time telling me the details of his own relationship and how his wife left him 6 weeks ago!!! 😳

Hopefully I'm back on track now 🤞🏼 I will continue to stoke that fire in my belly and remind myself that if I don't fight for this I will be letting my children down.

Twist it round, you are not a money grabbing bitch, but he is a money grabbing bas**ard. Remember that. Believe it. Hold on to it.

I haven't even seen a solicitor yet but the only was I can keep going until I do is this. Focus on a lovely quiet house, just you and the children. Imagine choosing paint colour, cushions. Imagine sinking into your sofa with that blissful first cup of tea after moving into your own home. You can do this!

The stumbling block for me @Pixiedust1234 is that I do believe it is his money because he has contributed more financially than me over the years. What I need to do is convince myself to believe wholeheartedly that my contribution to the family (non-monetary) has an equal financial value.

Stay strong @Bluebeanbag youve done so well!!

Great post.
Do not let this be you OP.

Learn from this excellent post.

Forget about your contribution if it makes you wobble.

Forcus on your boys.
The economy is not in a good place.
Could be a few rocky years ahead.
Your boys deserve the best provision.

Keep posting any time you feel a wobble.

We really do have your back.
Well done for reaching out in real life.

SO important to talk to those who love you.👍

If he is self employed and looking to get a mortgage, does this mean that he will have to be truthful about his earnings, and not fudge the books to get out of paying fair maintenance?

Also, you know about his potential secret stash, which might also be a good bargaining chip to hold for a crucial time.

I can completely understand that you want to minimise hurt for you and your children but you need to fight for what you are entitled to even if it won't be pretty.

Yes it would be easier to agree to his demands so you can split quickly and more amicably, but it's not the right thing to do here 💐

What I need to do is convince myself to believe wholeheartedly that my contribution to the family (non-monetary) has an equal financial value.

Once you get started on thinking about this, you'll soon see that you probably contributed more - much more than you realise. To get you started:

You said earlier that your H never shopped with the kids. Ever. So have a think about all the times that you sorted out their needs - all those hours (days!) going into shops and trying on stuff. Petrol money to get you all there and back. And think about where the money primarily came from.

You also said that you had to remind him that there was no food in the house on his days - so you do all the grocery too, right? Household consumables like showergel and all that? Who shops around for the car insurance, or books the kids into the dentist and takes them there?

Who sorts all the holidays? The holiday clothes? The school books and uniforms and the envelope with the right amount of cash for music/ swimming/ voluntary contributions? Playdates and birthday gifts?

So you see, while I earn 10k or so less than DH, and the actual household chores are 50/50, I more than match his extra income by being the family PA. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that my contribution is incalculable, such is it's value!

Go for what you are entitled to. Fuck being 'fair'. His idea of fairness and yours will never meet in the middle. If you left with only the clothes on your back, he'd probably insist that he bought those too and what a money grabbing bitch you are. So if you are going to be painted as a money grabbing bitch, you might as well earn the title fair and square.

@TheOriginalClownfish you are right. I also retrained and changed my career to look after the kids when they were born and then went part time. There have been so many things.

We had two further valuations today which were significantly higher than the first one. If we were to achieve that price, a 60/40 split would leave me with enough to buy a decent place with 3 bedrooms in one of the areas I have been looking at.

We had further words on the phone this afternoon (I know, I'm not supposed to be engaging with him). He is saying that because he is SE he wouldn't get a mortgage based on his current earnings - he is working roughly one shift per week at the moment. He says if I hang on for a 50/50 split he won't be able to afford to buy somewhere with 3 bedrooms to accommodate the boys and therefore I would be reducing the amount of contact he could have.

I just don't know. I probably need to speak to my solicitor about it all. I wish I wasn't so weak and could just tell him to do one.

Stop listening to him. Or, if you must, then PLEASE stop believing everything he says is fact. Assume he is lying, playing the pity me card again and again. He knows what works with you. Speak to your lawyer. Make notes of what he says and ask the lawyer what’s really what. Why should you accept 40%? You’ll probably have the children more than 50% of the time, don’t sell them short or undervalue yourself and your contribution just because he called you (pushed ur buttons here didn’t he?) a money grabbing bitch. Not a money grabber note, a money grabbing BITCH. He is a very nasty man who is out for himself. He doesn’t care about the kids or you, only the impact on him.

I hear you, I am having to do the same mental gymnastics.

Work out how much a cleaner costs per hour. How many hours did you do over the week x months x years.

How much does a nurse cost per hour?
A childminder?
A secretary?
A chauffeur?
A laundromat?
A gardener?
A decorator?

It all adds up. And that is what a judge looks at. Not everything supposedly worthwhile and valuable is hard cash. You are worth way more than you think!

Your contributions have been valuable. Don’t think you are entitled to less because you loooked after the children

No OP, you are NOT responsible for how often he has the kids, HE is ! (And bloody well tell him so !)

He actually expects you to have the kids live with you, so you house, feed and clothe them, you pay for uniforms, school trips, birthdays, Xmas etc, yet he wants you to do ALL that, with LESS than HE will have for having them at weekends ????
(IF he actually does have them stay, because he won't want to have to do the actual work of having them, will he ? No, he'll hire a cleaner to clean up after them, he'll buy take out food to feed them, and he'll give you all their dirty laundry home with them too ffs !! So actually, HE'LL do fuck all !)

He's trying to get you to agree to giving him MORE money, to do LESS ffs !!!

STOP talking to him AT ALL !! Everything through email and solicitor ONLY!!

Gosh he's really done a number on you all these years.

Your contribution might have been less in financial terms, but more in loss of earnings and looking after the dc. It doesn't mean you walk away with less, actually it's more because your earning potential is less due to what you gave up during the marriage

As for what he can and can't afford, that is none of your concern.

He has such double standards! He wants you to have less from the family pot in the divorce, yet will expect you to be the primary carer for the dc. Has he given any thought to how YOU will afford a house for the dc in those situations. Yet he says he needs more money so HE can house the dc when they stay. Such a warped sense of reality. He's not giving an ounce of thought about how his requirements affect the dc.

Tell him to do one.

The DC can share a room at weekends at his.

Only works one shift per week - tell him to get a 2nd job.

Wake up he is deliberately reducing his income to get more from the marital pot. He knows exactly how the system works hence bullying and manipulating you.

Find your anger

Also, your children are youngish.....wait till the teens hit for costs to rocket.

My two boys eat more than their father by a very long shot, their showers are so frequent, they go through adult shoes and sports shoes.
They are so expensive.
Driving lessons when you are not dropping them here and there.
Social lives.

Extra curricular activities.
Under 12's don't cost a fraction of over 12's if you exclude childcare.

You all have really good points and you are right - the main issue I am struggling with is whether he is telling me the truth about his financial situation and as far as that goes, I really have no idea, which is why I will have to resort to getting my solicitor involved.

He is asking for 50/50 custody and therefore says that he needs to be able to afford 3 bedrooms just the same as me. He has also said that he would take on the role as primary carer rather than me. I don't think this is actually a serious argument from him - I think he was just throwing anything at me to try to win at that point. I think he knows he couldn't do this due to his working hours.

He has gone through periods of very little work in the past but equally has times when he could work 24/7 if he wanted to so I do think this is one of those dry periods, although it doesn't help that he has also fallen out with his boss at work (who allocates the shifts). He is in the process of trying to change career although the new avenue would also involve long hours and potentially time away from home.

@billy1966 you're right about the food and clothes! DS1 eats everything in sight.

He wants to talk about it again tonight 🙄😬 which no doubt means we will go around in circles and disagree again. I might just say to him I don't want to talk again without solicitors involvement. I don't see the point. Nothing is ever resolved. He says that's because I won't agree with anything he says. Why the bloody hell should I? This is the whole problem with the marriage - his way or no way!

No more discussions or conversations.

Tell he needs to put his proposals in writing and you will respond likewise after you have consulted your legal advice (aka us).

He wants to wear you down, power play and bully.