Dating again (gulp) after being widowed

[Somerville]

I haven't been active on mn for a while, but I find myself with no-one IRL to ask. Which is fucking ridiculous, I know. It's not that I don't have some good friends. But I feel stupid for being so uncertain about this. Also, like they might judge me for thinking about this so soon. (I was widowed 16 months ago. We were together for 18 years, right from Uni, married for 15. 3 kids who are amazing but still broken hearted. FUCK CANCER.)

Anyway, deep breath. I've become close to someone over the past 6 weeks while emailing about a project we're both involved with in different ways. (Both freelancers in creative fields who work on several projects at a time - this is the only one where our involvement overlaps.) This particular project is very personal to me, as it touches on loss and grief, and our e-conversations became quite deep and I felt like we clicked, and would perhaps become friends. I didn't think about him romantically before we met - mainly I think, because I'm too busy to think about anything much beyond my kids and my work.

On Friday evening we met for the first time, at the official launch of the project. There were a lot of people there, and I'm not gregarious (especially as this was the first big event I've gone along to since everything, and am still receiving some awkward condolences) and he clearly is outgoing. But we ended up chatting in a corner for nearly an hour, couldn't stop talking. I fell for him hard - massive, instant crush . He's so tall, and his eyes are so blue, and I'd forgotten how nice it is to smell an attractive man, and listen to a deep voice... stupid stuff. Then we were interrupted and chatted to other people, though I kept looking over and seeing him smiling at me. I don't think I've smiled so much in ages. I had to leave to catch last train home while event was in full swing, and was too shy to go over and say goodbye.

I haven't heard from him in the few days since (though wouldn't have expected to). But my friend, who is heavily involved with this project and got me the gig, phoned me last night to say that he got her aside, after I left, and said that we had a connection that had come across in our emails and even more in person, and asked her if I had started dating. She told him that I haven't. That I'm not over my husband, and that my kids need a lot of my time. I guess that's all just about accurate. (I've been to a few dinner parties where I've been sat next to flirtatious single men who have not interested me at all.) Or has been, until now. She said she felt bad at discussing me behind my back, and also at speaking for me, but she didn't act like she thought she was materially wrong in what she'd said. I was too embarrassed/tongue tied to correct her. She's right. But also... he feels this connection too? He wants to know if I'm dating?

I've done no work since the school run this morning, just written a list of all the reasons why pursuing this would be a bad idea. (He doesn't have kids, and is I think a few years younger than me. I'm not having any more kids - couldn't do that to mine.)

Also, I have no time! I have a fucking spreadsheet rather than a diary, so full is my time. (My parents come and stay to have the kids one weekend a month, but that's it. One weekend a month for me, which I usually spend in a B&B on the coast, reading and running.)

And another also. He thinks I'm not dating, and I don't know how I'd let him know that I might be interested in dating (him). Should I call back my friend? Correct her, and she could tell him? Or would that look unprofessional, with this project? Shall I wait until it's over (at least 6 months)? Could I in the meantime at least ask her if he's as nice as he seems?

Lots of questions. Even writing this has helped clear my mind a bit. Thanks if you've read it. Any advice much appreciated.

I will add that it was entirely my decision to have DC with him. He never ever ever so much as suggested it.

I went and told him he's lovely. It got me a morning, kitchen-snog :o

Awwwwww

I've heard from Lovely.
Long, chatty email about his drive to his parents house and what his sisters and nieces are up to and what they're eating on Sunday (men, seriously) and sorry you're feeling sad Somer but try to enjoy your holiday.

He has't asked me one question. Seriously, there's not one question mark. He usually asks me stuff continually. And he must be wondering whether I'm still going to tell my younger DC and parents.

He's trying to make it easy for me to not reply if I don't want to, I think.

Which makes me want to reply.

Somer, definitely reply. How nice :)

He really seems a caring sort. Trying not to put pressure on you when you feel sad.

^ Yy

You weren't pathetic yesterday, Somer - don't be silly!

Do you plan to tell your parents and DCs about Mr Lovely, then?

Don't worry, I replied . I can't enjoy the fact that he's being so honest and then not reciprocate.

I had a wobble about this last night (DC went in my parents car and I blubbed at the dog for the whole journey) but yes, I am going to tell them. I like him too much not to give this a shot, even though I'm worried that it might be too soon for me. I put this in my email. A minute after I sent it he phoned and I freaked that maybe he would suggest to just be friends for now or something. Which reminded me again how much I bloody like him.

Anyway, he didn't say that, but that although he didn't want to see anyone else at the moment, I shouldn't feel that I couldn't. That maybe if I did it might help me to know if I wanted to pursue things with him or not.
I said that wouldn't work as am using up all my babysitting favours on spending time with him. Wimping out of saying I can't imagine anyone else matching up to his loveliness

He said well he's not going to make it easy for some other chap.

So then I reminded him that I really like him, and this wobble isn't about my feelings for him. It's that some days I feel very much still married to DH.

He said he understands, which I doubt he does since I don't - married to a fucking dead body, yeah that makes sense .

And he said he's glad I'm telling my family because he thinks it's too much pressure on me if I don't. I didn't mention my fears about my kids wanting a dad and the pressure that puts on me to choose someone really nice who won't get scared off easily. We'd already discussed enough deep shit for one day.

You know what, Somer? I don't think you're feeling this way because it's too soon. I think you'd be feeling like this whether you waited 10 months or 10 years. I think it's a difficult but necessary part of the process of moving on.

I'm glad you're telling your family, too. I think they will be able to support you through it.

I agree with Emma, you'd feel this way no matter what.

It makes perfect sense that you still feel married to dh. That doesn't end because he's not here. That is real. Don't fight it, accept it. You don't want to move on from dh, and you don't have to.

What I'm really clumsily trying to say is that you don't have to "get over" dh. Not ever. You have to grieve and get to a point where you feel ok. But you don't have to leave him behind.

It sounds like Mr Lovely is sensitive to that. Which is great. You need someone who understands that dh will always be a part of your life. But that doesn't mean someone else can't be too.

I hope that ramble made some kind of sense

Mr Lovely is really living up to his name. I understand that you still have feelings for your DH. You did not choose to end the marriage. You will always have feelings for him. And you are also allowed to stay open emotionally and develop feelings for someone else.

Your DC will be helped by your lead in this, too.

OP - you are amazing! I hope if I were ever in your position I would be like you!!

I totally agree that you'd likely feel this way at any time - perhaps more keenly than you would if this was a few more years down the line - but it's natural surely to go through it?

And try not to worry about what your kids expect. What they need is for you to date a good man. They don't need a carbon copy of their dad - they'll never have that, he's not replaceable. They just need the man in your life to be a good man - and then they'll find their own way together, if that's where this leads. My lovely widower's kids (15 and 20) don't want me to give to them what their mother gave. They just want their dad to be happy. I hope we'll develop a relationship - but it won't be a copy of what their mother did for them. They don't need that. Let Lovely (if you want to take it further) be an addition, not a replacement.

I'm not sure about posting this next stuff, because this is your thread, and it's about me

About still being married... Mr Lovely doesn't understand and I don't understand - because we haven't walked in your shoes. When he says he understands, I think it's short hand for "I get that you are feeling things that are complicated and I trust that you are the one experiencing them, and so you know they exist - and so they must be understandable".

Honestly though... I don't find it surprising, and it seems logical to me.

When I split from my XH, I felt 'divorced' immediately. All else was paperwork - in my head, we were done. You never ended your marriage - it's not what you wanted. 'Marriage' is a legal and social construct that ends with death - but it's also an expression of love, and that doesn't just stop.

When I think about (and talk about) my widower fiancé's wife, it doesn't feel quite right to say "first wife" (and never "ex wife"). It's just "wife".
OK, they are not legally "married" now, but they are still in a relationship. Well, he is with her. He is still a husband that loves her, he's still the one that cares for and loves her children. He goes to her grave to chat to her every week. He is still with her. When our parents die, we don't stop being their child. When, god forbid, a child dies, you are still a mother.

This is hard to explain, but I still see his relationship with her, and it feels perfectly natural that it co-exists with our relationship. In some ways, she feels to me like a member of his family who I just haven't met yet. Or... I hope this isn't a bad way to describe it, but... it feels maybe polygamous? Like, it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have two wives, just- one is dead. If I can feel like he's still married, surely it's not so odd if he would? (I doubt he does actually, he'd probably tell me now - "Cabs, you're over thinking this and you're a bit odd, but you're still the one for me".

There is, to me, a bit of "three of us in this relationship" BUT - please don't take that the wrong way! It's not a negative thing, and it's not a big thing. I don't think it often, and when I do it's not in any problematic way. She's not on a pedestal, she's not better than me (and I'm not better than her). In my mind, they'll always be married but our relationship (and then our marriage) will co-exist with that. Just as he can be a dad and a husband at the same time, or a dad to two children at the same time - I don't see why he isn't a husband to us both. Just - his relationship with her has to be different now than that with me. He'll always love her, and how you feel is far more important than any "rule" in law or society about when a marriage ends.

Please excuse me talking about me I've actually found it useful to understand in my own mind how I feel about dating a widower. (and it's all positive)

Cabrinha you sound wonderful and I love the way you write about your fiancé's late wife - I think your positive attitude is testament to your generosity of spirit and sense of security in his feelings for you. FWIW if I was in the OP's shoes I think I would find it really helpful to hear your POV (and in my own nosy shoes it's really interesting!)

Cab you're a bloody good woman.

How is Easter treating you Somer?

Oh wow, this is all very thought provoking (in a good way), thank you Cabrinha and everyone.

I've said it before on this thread Cabrinha; I wish that everyone who loses a spouse could meet someone as thoughtful as you are.

Also, sorry to disappear for a few days - just busy with the DC. I have told my younger 2 about Lovely. Also my parents - DM gets very worried about things and is nervous about it all, but DF is calming her down.

DD2 is all excited about Lovely, even though I'm trying to play it all down as much as possible. Every time my phone rings she tried to grab it first to get to talk to him, which is a bit stressful tbh, though also sweet.
DS has been quiet, but did suddenly come out with 'Does this work friend you've been on a date with even like rugby?' a day later. But he does tend to be quite quiet about things until he's processed them so I'm trying to not panic.

And I've talked to Lovely a few times every day, or emailed. We have lots of times planned in to see each other in April, including me coming along to his friends wedding.

When I think about (and talk about) my widower fiancé's wife, it doesn't feel quite right to say "first wife" (and never "ex wife"). It's just "wife".

I can't stop thinking about this. It ties in with something that has very much been on my mind: that although theoretically I've felt all along that I'll meet someone else and get married again at some later stage, the reality of that is that it turns DH into my XDH. Which feels like a terrible betrayal. But your words are right, Cabrinha. He'll still always be my husband, even if I do have another one. And in the shorter term, if Lovely is my boyfriend (no grand declarations but it kind of feels that way) then that doesn't mean I'm cheating on DH. I know that, just need to get my head around feeling it too, but it helps that no-one on here or IRL has reacted with the kind of horror I expect anytime I tell someone.

Your late DH will never be your XDH...

I HOPE YOU HAVE a lovely next date with Mr Lovely.

Sometimes you aren't beholden to us. If you disappear from the thread forever that's fine. Of course we're all cheering you on (and want updates if it gets all serious - for maximum wedding hat planning of course)

Glad the DC and parents reacted well.

Sorry that souls read Somer not Sometimes

FFS autocorrect

I refer to my second husbands late wife by her first name.

Not that much now as we seem to have talked out all that stuff a few years ago but if we do touch on anything like that I call her by her name to DH.

It seems more respectful and DH has definitely moved on now.

Funnily enough he mentioned her yesterday to my son and fiancée as he was describing a place they used to go to. All just said so naturally which I think is how it should be.

Pleased all is going well Somer. Was wondering how you were doing.

Somer

Ignore Diggerdigsdogs, the nation is gripped, we absolutely demand to be kept in the loop!!
Massively hoping you too have met just the right person.

You lot crack me up

I must admit that the response was/is surprising - this is the slowest burning relationship in the history of relationships and I can't work out for the life of me why it's interesting to follow. I seriously thought the first 'place marking' post was a piss take. But all the responses have either been helpful or funny, and it's nice to have somewhere to talk about Lovely, since I'm still being very careful in RL. And it's amazing to have heard from so many other widows, or those in relationships with widowers, or who've had friends in my situation; I don't come across this IRL.

Also, directly because of this thread, I've signed up for another WAY event, and I think some other widows (who are lurking and have PM'd me) have also heard about it who hadn't before. Well done twofalls who I believe first brought up WAY on here.

Dowser - that all sounds like the sort of relationship I'd like to have. Maybe it'll happen with Lovely, and maybe not, but I'm having fun finding out

He's being very sensitive to my feelings about DH at the moment, seems to be feeling his way with regards to what upsets me and what's okay. When he invited me to his friends' wedding he asked me first if weddings upset me at this stage but I went to two last summer and was able to enjoy them.

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