I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

Iwillorderthefood I am planning to take full advantage of being pampered and not lifting a finger for 6 weeks (40 days' rest in the parts of India where my parents are from is the tradition) when DC2 arrives in September - although I'm not sure I could stay inside for that long!

My DM and DF actually moved down to be near DD (and me!) when she was born and so I'm looking forward to having mum around whilst I am pinned to the sofa surrounded by food and watching crap TV feeding DC2.

The thinking behind it is that it roughly takes that long for post partum recovery to take place (I suppose back in the day giving birth was so much more dangerous) and it takes around 6 weeks to establish breastfeeding.

Also it would really make sense before the days of modern medicine to keep a baby protected and away from others when they are in the vulnerable first three months. Apparently we have evolved to be born early in our neurological development (before we can hold our heads up, sit up or walk) because otherwise our massive brains would never make it though the birth canal. Plenty of colic etc. also clears up around 3 months too.

This is the most educational site on Mnet. Read it and learn about the customs of other countries

Sunnysummer my friend told me that in Thailand there is apparently a word to describe the urge to squeeze a chubby baby's cheeks

The documentary HouseMum mentioned is called "Make me a German" and the whole thing is on YouTube. It shows a couple and two of their kids going to Germany and living like a statistically typical German family.

My German Aunt is absolutely paranoid about germs,soft egg yolks, children not wearing tights and a multitude of other things such as this!

I have to say I am still when I see women wearing more or less no clothes going out at night in the middle of winter. No coat, no tights, and strappy tops...
Same with babies about 1yo with no shoes, no socks on, vaguely a light jumper on pushed around in a pushchair. I mean even Brits wouldn't sit on their patio for an hour with no socks, no shoes on in the middle of winter!
Ime you can also see that in schools where no teacher will ever tell a child to put a coat on whereas they would never let a child go out 9in winter) wo a coat on in France

www.dailymotion.com/video/x16oyz9_bbc-make-me-a-german-hd_lifestyle

Here's a viewable copy ^

Danke Schoen!

And YY about wrapping children in cotton wool. I've had a strange look from another mum (who is also a HV) when I said I was leaving my 2 dcs go to the tennis club on their own. They are 9 and nearly 11yo.
I am sure she was biting her lips as to not tell me off and say it would a child protection issue.
Same mum didn't dare leaving her 2 dcs with a 15yo for a couple of hours in the evening. Her dcs are 9 and 11yo and she was planning to be 2 houses down the road. They ended up cancelling :(

On the same lines, it is quite usual in france to send children to summer camps. Most of them will accept them from 4yo but 'cautious' parents will wait until they are 6~7yo to send them away for 1~2weeks. A friend of mine use to spend 4 weeks away during the summer like this and did so from 5yo, every year (childcare issue there).
At my dcs' school, the first time children will have been away for a couple days wo the parents is in Y6....

I was thinking about the question up thread about children with SEN and whilst working in a school in China for quite a few years I saw none. This was quite some time ago though. There is a deaf child in a school where a friends now works in China but he is considered naughty and isn't allowed any extra support as such. My friend works closely with his parents (her own choice not encouraged by school) who are amazing. Their son is the only child in his class who can read English and Chinese because of their work at home with him,he is only 5. Not saying this is the case everywhere as an attitude towards SEN in China nor every individuals opinion,but as an example any thing less than perfect is generally considered a weakness.

I have a friend who lived in Germany for some of her childhood, wonder if that explains our differing attitudes to illness. I'm not entirely sure that DD3 has ever set foot in our GP surgery (except for immunisations). DD2 only has been once or twice (10yo). My friend's children have had many visits to GP/out of hours service and have had ear/urine/strep infections. I wonder if her kids are really more ill (once or twice was patently obvious something was wrong, but other times I was a bit ) - they will go to the GP if the child is a bit "under the weather" and usually come away with a prescription. My DD3 once spent all Christmas day (she was 3 or 4) on the sofa, didn't want to open presents or eat anything, managed a few sips of water, had a raised temp and a bit of a tummyache - but had no rash/could move her neck down/wasn't especially light-sensitive so figured I'd wait and see. A bit better next day and recovered soon enough. I'm sure many of my friends would've been straight on the phone to the emergency doc.

Children in the UK definitely need more independence but as a British parent I am very guilty of not allowing this. Dd2 is 7 and going on first trip away in May without us. It has taken me a while to get over myself worrying!! It's so important to do things like this. She is beyond excited and I am really glad I didn't automatically say no but it did cross my mind! Learning from other cultures about independence is a very good thing. Dd was absolutely amazed to see a 5/6 year old boy hop on a bus in China in the middle of a busy road by himself on the way home from school. I used to go to the shop for my mum in the 1970's and cross a main road at 5! Not sure what's happened to change things so drastically in the UK.

Thornofcannor - get your friends to learn BSL and teach it to their son. They will be able to say really contentious things in public without anyone knowing about it. Like 'look at him, thinks he's clever'. :)

horsetowater great idea!

Thorn I think this cultural comparison thing swings both ways. My DH is American and extremely paranoid about our kids. Our children ask me "why can't we walk around the village like normal people" and I explain to them that their dad is from a much more violent culture (which his family have direct experience of) and we need to respect that and be understanding. He has generally got more confident as time has gone on here but I still drive our 13 yr old dd to school rather than her take a bus and a train. I think he may relax about that soon as we are moving to a house with a bus stop outside and where two classmates are down the road so could travel together. I understand where my DH is coming from as I lived in the US for 12+ years. The German parents would find it ridiculous though!

So interesting reading about all the different attitudes and good point HoneyandRum regarding the safety worries for your DH. Haven't enjoyed a thread so much in ages! Despite very contrasting cultural differences between the UK and China regarding children,I felt very happy there. I loved talking with people I met about parenting and being surprised at what one another did or didn't do. It's a great icebreaker!

petite was actually quite shocked when a fancy Michelin-starred restaurant said that of course we can bring our 2 massive dogs, they even gave them water bowls.

As for children, I have to say that I have also never seen any children running around in restaurants, sitting under the tables, wandering around and chatting to strangers etc - at least according to MN, everyday occurrence in the UK.

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread

Isn't the world lovely, and completely mad

Yay! The classics nomination worked! :) Great thread OP

I'm American, born 'n' bred, and I'm fairly sure I'm a proper adult Boffin. :o I got married in a church and everything, no Disneyland nuptials for me! The whole "no grownups" thing is a big city "liberal" attitude. Here in the rural Midwest it's shameful to not be responsible and a hard worker.

The US was settled at vastly different times by vastly different ethnic groups, so areas of the country and sometimes even the same state are markedly different.

I have lived in Minnesota since I was 7. The area where I grew up is way up north and is part of what's called the "Finn Hook"...an area mostly settled by Finns and Norwegians and Swedes. The culture is still evident there as most of us were only 3 or so generations "off the boat".

We went out in all weathers. With snow and ice and freezing temps 5-6 months out of the year we'd have gone stir crazy otherwise! The concept of Sisu is widespread and used as a slogan on T-shirts, bumper stickers, etc.

Now I live and am raising the DCs in a different part of Minnesota- still the same state but 300 miles south- and it's different because the original ethnic mix is different.

For instance I don't have as many of the "typical" American hang ups about nudity as it was still somewhat common where I grew up for everyone to take a sauna together. And jump through a hole cut in the lake ice afterward! :)

Here my SIL tried to keep her TWO YEAR OLD ds from seeing her breastfeed her newborn did! I know DH thinks it's a bit strange sometimes that DS (almost seven) sees me in a towel and occasionaly -gasp- naked! He also saw me breastfeed every day for the nine months that DD nursed, of course.

DS went to preschool, which is optional, for just a few hours a day starting when he was 3. He didn't start kindergarten ("proper school") until this year when he was 6. I walk him to school now but he will start going by himself or with neighborhood kids at 7 or 8.

I am considered odd for: never spoonfeeding DD, co-sleeping with her til nine months, giving her herbal tea, and having her outdoors all the time. I even bundled her up and brought her out just for a short walk down the street in -30 because I needed to get out of the house.

Yes to lots of activities. DS had gymnastics at 2 then has had soccer, basketball, swimming, t-ball, and just a general sports program. Oh and tae kwon do. Not all at the same time though! :)

Talking of holidays in Sardinia (you can do cheap as chips RyanAir flys into three airports) be warned that all entertainment at Italian resorts starts at about 10pm. All the kids and toddlers are up gyrating at the "Baby Disco" one of the "Animation" team stopped by last time we were there to let us know they would be starting some kind of craft project for the kids - at 11pm!

That is interesting Honey...here I would venture to say that 80% or so of households have guns but it's not scary or violent. A 13 year old who lived within walking distance of school but was driven would be . Kids here walk to school and ride their bikes downtown from 8 or so, younger if they have older siblings.

I manage the cinema and we often get kids or 9 or 10 on bikes who come in with friends and watch the movie.

I'm British but live in the US. DC1 born in London, DC2 in Washington, DC.

Where to start? Birth here was highly medicalised - 7(!) scans vs. the 3 I had in the UK, constant tests and worries about conditions that it isn't deemed necessary to test for in the UK - strep B for example. Hospital experience was good, own room, nurses generally nice. I ended up with an emergency c-section but pre this, had enquired about gas and air. Might as well have asked for a crack pipe. The hospital did have one Canadian OB/GYN who was very pro introducing gas and air but his efforts kept being thwarted for spurious insurance reasons...

I am a bad mother here for not sleep training DC2, for sometimes co-sleeping (daren't tell the paediatrician that one!), my American friends think I'm mad for not having him circumcised as this appears customary (and they cannot understand why I've refused to attend various circumcision ceremonies, religious or otherwise). Ferber is seen as the way to go - to the extent that I have a friend who tells me she listens to her baby crying in his room at night and lies crying herself, but doesn't go to him as that's what Ferber says (apparently). She is highly intelligent, a lawyer, and I just want to tell her to follow her instincts!!! She is also weaning with purée from 4 months - I'm going to do baby led weaning as I did with DC1 in the UK and even talking about it raised eyebrows...

DC1 - now a toddler. Well - talk about anxiety over preschool places!!!! And what on earth is the point of a preschool that you pay a fortune to attend, but then actually have to stay at with your child?! Or, more likely, pay a nanny to stay at with your child?! I did go to some preschool open days and was amazed that they were talking about writing preK school referral letters for 2/3 year olds. Madness!

Other things - I have a friend who was told off by an American helicopter parent for letting her child touch leaves in the park. Leaves! Who knew?! I had a lady stop her car last year and berate me because apparently DC1 wasn't wrapped up warmly enough. Loads of children seem to have various therapists for reasons I can't quite fathom. And there are companies who specialise in baby proofing your home - hmm, cos you really need to pay a self appointed 'consultant' $600 to tell you to put ornaments high up and fit stairgates...

I think it's fair to say that I align myself much more with other European expat mums/parents in terms of views on childcare, despite the many differences highlighted on this thread. Medical care here is excellent if you have the insurance to pay for it, but there is a level of competitiveness amongst parents that I never saw in London (or certainly not to this extreme!). It's always fun to drop into conversation the fact that various generations of DH's family have been to Oxbridge and we're expecting the same for our two (I couldn't give a monkey's) and then watching the local alpha mums turn green...

Wobbly I'm American and all that sounds mad to me! :o

Except for the medicalized birth and no gas and air. I'd never even heard of G&A til Mumsnet!

Sleep training is out here too...maybe some controlled crying or the gradual retreat but leaving your baby to scream, absolutely no. And the anxiety over preschool places is definitely a city thing...here you just call and sign up. :)