I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

Meewhoo I'm laughing at some of the boys in that lookbook. I imagine so many of them are looking at their feet thinking, "What the f*ck are these shoes?" Do Spanish boys really dress like that?

Great thread. Bookmarking it for bedtime reading :)

We lived in Bosnia while ds1 was aged 2 to 5 and we were bad parents when:

• we let him go barefoot indoors when there was an R in the month. Thick socks and thick slippers are all that are allowed Sept to April, regardless of central heating and underfloor heating.
• we didn't insist that he wear socks with his sandals outside in the summer (with no R in the month!)
• we didn't ever layer him up enough, even when we made an effort to dress him in what we were being told to for trips out!
• we didn't keep him indoors ALL the time during the snow months
• we let him feed himself. I was always trying to hide my feelings when DS1 was stuffing his face nicely and next to him, our friend's nephew was sat on a lap being spoon fed...right up to when they were both 5!
• we let him drink from a normal cup once he mastered it, instead of giving him a bottle.
• we fed him the same food as us instead of polenta, meat paste on bread, processed meat slices, and lots and lots of sweets chocolate and crisps!
• we didn't encourage him to learn to push, shove, punch other boys in parks and cafe play areas
• we tried teaching him to write and read before he was 7.

Am aware I'm sounding a bit negative but on the whole it was a lovely place for him to spend his early years.

A friend of mine married to a Bosnian said she scandalized the neighbourhood by taking her baby out for walks in the stroller/buggy as supposedly a baby should not go outside for the first three months! This was about 18 years ago now however. Did you hear about that WelliesandPJs?

Hi everyone, we've moved this to classics now. So interesting to hear all your tales of different traditions!

Congratulations Dodi1978 now your thread features in a Mumsnet cultural tradition!

I didn't know that about school trips ikea sounds lovely :)

it is a great thread.

Excellent! I am thrilled and absolutely love reading all these stories! I am the features editor of the local NCT newsletter and am now thinking about doing an issue where local mums and dads write about their experiences of raising a child in another country!

What about school trips? Where did your children go? My son was taken to the local bakery and they made German cookies - not too shoddy! They also go on Wandertags (Wandering (Hiking) Days) where they go on long marches through the forest and kindly exhaust your children for you.

Oh Sangria I am peeing myself

Love the independence of kids from other countries - I got the look from a friend the other day as I left my 10yo at home for about 20 mins! Next year when DD2 moves on to secondary school, I will have to make sure I fully escort DD3 (will be in year 2) into school. At the moment I leave the pair of them to walk together - there are no roads to cross from where I leave them, I love the fact that they have that tiny bit of responsibility (actually, the 6 year old has a better sense of direction and self-preservation than the 10yo!)

There was a great documentary on BBC2 or C4 last year looking at the cultural differences between the UK and Germany - with a couple of exceptions, I liked a lot about the German model. As someone said, more like the UK of the 70s (without the strikes and riots). Anyone remember what it was called?

I think I watched that on YouTube recommended by an expat friend here. Was it called "How to be German" or something? It was pretty interesting the only very major problem was the Brits of course spoke no German and expected everyone to speak to them in English, which being polite and well educated the Germans dutifully did. Unfortunately this had the effect of making the Germans look very stereotypically serious and without a sense of humour - while I have found them to be in fact a very jolly nation who really enjoy their leisure time and protect it jealousy as a society. They would however be extremely conscious that they wanted to make a good impression if speaking English and would be focussing on not making grammatical mistakes etc. as language standards are very high here. Germans always apologize for their "terrible English" while speaking fluently. Americans will say they speak German if they took a year of classes in High School.

I think they should have thrown the Brits in and just had subtitles to really see how Germans do things.

I've thought of a difference with France actually now. I am quite laid back about colds and coughs (despite both my DCs having been hospitalised for complications as babies, I don't assume every cough will turn into pneumonia iyswim) and other bugs. I watch other parents picking up children from preschool and nursery and if the child coughs the parents always say something along the lines of "you're coughing! you're ill". There is a tendancy to rush kids to the paediatricians for all kinds of minor ailments, a real constant fear of illness and demanding everything be treated.

Similar with bumps and bruises. Parents seem to panic quite a bit more over here. My DD2 hurt her mouth at nursery and the staff were tripping over themselves to reassure me I didn't have to take her to hospital and get it stitched up, whereas the thought hadn't even crossed my mind.

Medical people and nursery staff seem to like the non panic attitude but I have received some filthy looks from other parents when I have shrugged at hearing the list of various minor injuries my kids have had that day and not really asking questions. I would guess I have rolled my eyes at seeing them panic over a bit of snot too though so it goes both ways.

well working professional couples see less of their children and use twee phrases like quality time

Dodi can I have a German Mutti badge? I caught myself worrying this morning about my daughter going out this morning on a very sunny day and getting "a cold neck" as she wasn't wearing a scarf. I even tried to insist but she brushed me off. I was very seriously worried that so much neck flesh was exposed. No loving mother would let her child out in such a state surely?

I'm so proud of myself, I feel quite emotional and a little tearful.

In Estonia, if you would ask the local mumsnet about after school babysitter for your school-age child, you would be told not to be ridiculous and wrap them in cotton wool - surely a 7-year old can just take public transport and be home alone for a few hours, til parents finish work.

In France, I have not found any restaurants where children are not welcome, including Michelin starred ones (dogs are also welcome in most, but that's another story). But there are also rarely ever any special activities or games available, children are expected to sit at the table just like adults, and behave. I have never seen any children shoving fistfuls of spaghetti in their mouths - either they use napkins, knives and forks, or are spoonfed.

YY MeeWhoo to the great Spanish baby/children's clothes - also in our town there were several sets of identical twins - of course always dressed identically and fabulously. I have to say though that dd was dressed in classic british m/c unisex baby clothes (largely because I had two friends with little boys exactly 1 year older ) and I'm not sure anyone ever thought anything of it.

DH & I did have a theory on the multiple layers of warm clothes in what we'd consider very hot weather. Maybe if you are always used to being really quite hot, then it doesn't seem so unpleasant in the summer time when it is insanely hot to British bodies used to cooler temps? Having said that IME people in Almería complain more about the heat in summer than British people do about the rain ever, so if that is the plan it doesn't work that well!

HazleNutt I would agree re children in restaurants. Always welcome and often made a fuss of. Same with dogs. I find the attitude similar in Germany. I have never been made to feel bad about either my dog or my DC. Obviously took crying babies outside to cry but only ever had sympathetic looks, never cats bums.

DM always changed her swimsuit when she gets out of the sea so she wouldn't get a 'Verkuehltes/n Karakter'. She didn't force us to though.

I think I only got my first painkiller at 14 given to me by a friend. I was never ill actually, probably just as well. German relatives still over there are obsessed with pills and medication.

I am a wimp Brit now as when I was in Norwich for New Year last year I was shocked, shocked (!) at the amount of young ladies wearing ballet flats, thin tights and short skirts with no coat while I was bundled in my German cover-your-arse-zipped-up-to-the-neck down coat, hat, scarf, gloves and knee-high boots.

I slept regularly in the British winter with my window open - I'm a total weather wimp now.

Talking of school trips our nursery regularly takes DS and his class into the woods near by. At our last parents meeting one member of staff conspiratorially leans towards my husband and talks about the time they couldnt find DS beause he had crawled behind a bush (he was maybe 14 months at the time) Husband didn't have a clue what she was on about :) Can't imagine that going down well in the UK

Oh, just remembered another one (from Bosnia). Cafes will almost always refuse to serve cold juice to children. Room temperature juice is best, the cold drinks will make them ill.

honeyandrum yes, I have heard about your friend and her foolish ways, people are still talking about her sorry, only joking!!

Yes, you very rarely see newborns out and about. Mothers and babies are kept indoors for a long time although I'm not sure for how long.

Ha ha! Cheeky monkey!