I would be a bad mum... if I still lived in Germany! Or: differences in traditions and guidelines

[dodi1978]

I am German, but have lived in the UK for 10 years. In fact, I had somehow acquired a husband, a house and a baby at pretty much exactly 10 years after arrived on an Easyjet flight with one suitcase . Said baby is now almost eight months old.

But that's not relevant here...

What is relevant is the fact that I am a terrible mum! Yes I am! At least if I am judge myself against German guidelines on weaning.

In the UK, the three rules seem to be:

1. Start around six months of age.
2. Avoid salt and sugar.
3. Don't give honey and nuts (ok, and a couple of other things, but the list is small).

And then, there is of course BLW vs. purees etc.

In Germany, BLW seems to be something that nobody has ever heard of. Even friends who have had babies recently seem to be utterly puzzled when I mentioned that some parents don’t give their baby any purees at all.

I’m doing a mixture of purees and finger food, having the little one eat what we eat whenever possible. But according to German guidance, I seem to have got it wrong, because, apparently, babies should have

• A potato – vegetable – meat – puree at lunchtime
• A milk – cereal – broth in the evening
• And a cereal – fruit broth in the morning

Ahem, fail!!! My pancakes with blueberry compote in the morning (which we only have occasionally, by the way) just don’t pass muster.

There are all kinds of other rules and guidelines as well, e.g. that that you should add rapeseed oil (no olive oil before one year!) to certain foods and how much and, oh yes, no yogurt before 10 months (fail!) etc. etc.

Sometimes, dear MNers, I am glad I am living in the UK! I don’t do well with rigid rules. Even the Pampers website has completely different guidance on weaning, when you look at the UK and the German version.

But this made me think… if you are from another country, or have raised a child in another country, what differences have you noticed in the guidance given and in the practice around birth, food, sleep, toilet training etc. as compared to the UK?

I am just asking this out of interest! It’d be great to hear your stories!

Kudzugirl I believe the suspicions of melons and what they harbor were on the right track. They grow well in humid or swampy areas where mosquitos lurk. The melons got the blame before we understood that mosquitos carry malaria. Another reason why Southern Italians and Sardinians lived in villages high in the mountains - they understood there was a connection between living in the river valleys and malaria.

Honey

Yes! That is it. You have explained it so much better than me. I love Sardinia- the place to take your young child on holiday and watch them transmogrify into royalty in front of your very eyes. I have seen babies of customers carried aloft through restaurants to be presented to each and every diner for admiration.

Sardinia is the perfect family holiday destination, no crowds, beautiful beaches, great food and children can do no wrong. To be fair the Italian location that spoilt our children the most was the small town of Vieste in Puglia. It was March, we found a small restaurant to eat with our three kids ages 4-10. When youngest announced he wanted pizza we explained that wasn't on the menu but the young couple running the restaurant told us the husband was just making bread and whipped him up a gourmet pizza in minutes. Also were thrilled our kids ate mussels and brought out boatloads. I imagine there can be no greater compliment in Italy than your child is a great eater. This young couple came over and stood admiring our children eating their food like proud grandparents. They were truly lovely to us.

The paternity leave here in Norway is amazing and it is very common to see just as many dad's in the health centre for appointments as mums. Also my DH is entitled to the same amount of 'baby days' if DS gets sick as I am - I think this translates to society as a whole as you see many more women in 'traditional male jobs' then in the UK - construction, engineering etc

They have some sweet traditions around treats as well the sweetie displays in shops are quite often called 'saturday sweets' and on saturdays if they have done their chores they get a bowl of sweet porridge with cinnamon. This is from our elderly neighbours so i'm sure things are changing but I hope not to much.

I do though believe that some things are absolutes, right on any basis and some wrong and that we all try to work out what those are. obviously some don't matter at all - if the baby wears a hat or does not. Others can be fundamental to good care - love, closeness etc.

The Japanese co sleeping always seems particularly kind and good.

Interesting that although there is great emphasis in Germany on your children being indendepent at a young age, once they get through secondary level and are in college/university/apprenticeships parents are still financially responsible for them.

This is precisely WHAT makes German parents more 'grown up'. They can't have six kids on welfare until 21 so make sure they damn well get them educated and independent at an early age.

My nieces town in Germany still has that lovely ET like feel with great swathes of kids on bikes swooping past you from sun up to sundown. I love it. They career down the steep hilly streets at breakneck speeds that give me heart failure and run wild in the Black Forest. It is the childhood that my sibling had recreated in Germany for his own children.

My children were the only ones walking to their prep school at one stage and the school asked if they had permission (3 minute walk!!!). I said it was every other parent at the school who was at fault in not encouraging independence, not I. (UK). Their sister took a school coach from age 5.

Haven't read the whole thread yet, but one of the main differences between UK and certain more traditional areas/families in Spain are the baby clothes.
You go to the park on a Sunday and you think you've inadvertently entered a time warp and are now back to Victorian times (I can't understand it and I'm Spanish)
Examples here www.pilicarrera.com/es/primavera-verano-bebe/look-book-pv14-bebe-243.html

What is the attitude to SN children in your experience?

The Norwegian "climb trees and rocks and it won't hurt them" thing, for instance, would have been impossible for two of mine. Would they have felt very sidelined?

In cultures where babies are very loved and feted, are SN kids given special love but not a whole lot of belief that they could become independent?

I know a young Greek girl who is studying in England because in Greece ppl with her (purely physical) disability just don't go to University.

Beast good question, you very rarely see children with SEN in Germany, my guess is they go to special schools and live a segregated life. I would be interested to know.

We were in Southern Italy for Easter Sunday one year. Naturally everyone was beautifully turned out but the children were truly a sight to behold, all lavishly decked out in fabulous outfits. The church was standing room only with a crowd outside the front door. The children were all seated while elderly grandparents stood in the aisles. I was standing near the door when an ambulance crew pushed through and slowly made their way among the crowd on the right hand side of the church and then removed an elderly person on a stretcher. Mass didn't stop for a moment. In the US when something similar happened the priest paused and asked the congregation to pray for the individual in the emergency.

Afterwards all the children were given big bundles of Italian candy-like cakes and everyone took a stroll in the sun at the park on the waterfront. It was warm enough that my kids were in cotton sleeves and very comfortable. However as it was still officially Winter in Italy which goes by the calender not by the temperature children around us were in heavily padded jackets and fur coats.

I think the UK leads the way in education for SEN, and inclusion issues. Not that there aren't postcode lottery problems, but the principles are sound.

Horsetowater that is one perspective but you do know that Germany's population is shrinking? They are not having enough children to replace themselves and are experiencing skill shortages. By mid-century they will no longer have the largest population in Western Europe, that crown will pass to France. It could have something to do with most schools closing by 1pm everyday and Germans believing raising children to be incredibly stressful and hard work.

I was rundown a couple of years ago and went to see my German GP. He believed I had "burnout" and recommended that he send me to a state funded spa for a month! Really wished I was able to take him up on that offer but not really doable with my husbands schedule. You can take your kids though as they have schools at some spas which the kids attend while their poor mothers recuperate.

HoneyandRum, what I would give for something like that right now. I think both DS and I badly need it. Do you have a link??

I will ask some friends - I know my eldest DDS good friend disappeared from school and went with her mum to a spa on the North Sea coast last year. Also another friend went through a divorce and took her three children for at least six weeks. The kids loved it and the mother looked like a new woman when she got back.

The Germans take stress very seriously.

Yes interesting question beast. Anecdotally I have heard that depression isn't really a thing here (Norway) and this applies to PND.
However my HV did let us know that couples counseling was available for new parents and they had a psychologist available if needed so I'm not sure if that ties up?
Different to Germany you do see lots of kids with SN out and about but I have no idea of what support they have, I would be fascinated to know if the 'get on with it, free range attitude' is applied to SEN/ SN as well?

Ae you in Germany BoffinMum? Talk to you dr she/he should be able to recommend some locations and it is covered by your insurance.

I know that children in care in Germany live in a kind of 'village' environment - large foster communities - is that the same for children with SEN? Don't want to derail the thread but am genuinely interested.

HoneyandRum, I am not but I do have another kind of health insurance that might cover part of it.

In terms of child rearing I would say that in general Germans are hypochondriacs and love to tell you all about their latest health issues and discuss them at length with others in stealth boasting sessions. I imagine that spills over into health worries for their children so I wouldn't exactly call them free range because they seem to enjoy worrying.

Ah sorry honey I was calling the Norwegians free range, though reading back I see that's not clear :)

I have worked in a few nurseries and schools in Sweden and the attitude to sen seems to be inclusive and accepting.

In Sweden we have a simalar attitude to Norway regarding climbing trees and rocks, the children are allowed to climb and explore as they wish but it isn't mandatory and the children do it to varying degrees depending on their personality, ability and interests. There are always other options, it intra specific climbing trees class.

Children with disabilities are very well supported at school and nursery, they have a one to one carer who enables the child to join in as much as possible.

School trips are not allowed to go ahead unless every child in the class can take part, schools must fund the trips themselves so no child is left out due to family finances. There must be a way for all children to join in the activity.

My dp's aunt is blind and she was taken on all sorts of trips whilst at school, skiing with a guide, cycling on a tandom, she was allowed to climb trees and her teachers would verbally guide her from the ground.

There seems to be less of a rush to diagnose young children with specific learning disabilities and asd, the children showing signs of issues are given support at nursery before a diagnosis is given.

No probs or criticism implied lovesmycake just interesting that national mindset also does seem to influence decisions parents make. By US and UK standards German parents have a lot of support with a society that is more like the 70s in terms of safety and life balance (shops closed by 2pm Saturday and not open Sunday). But Germans must be comparing their situation differently and they seem to see life as very stressful. So it's all relative.

I do hear complaints here that salaries are low but housing costs are also very reasonable it seems.