The Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness: are you lonely? What would help?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all,

Some of you may have heard of the Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness. The Commission was originally set up by the late Jo Cox MP alongside Seema Kennedy MP, and the aim was to have a cross-party parliamentary focus on the problem of loneliness in UK society.

After Jo's murder last June, Rachel Reeves MP has picked up Jo's baton (still with Seema Kennedy MP co-chairing), and the Commission was renamed in Jo's memory.

Over the course of 2017, the Commission is looking at loneliness among specific groups: older people, carers, people with disabilities, asylum seekers and refugees. And one of the groups they're looking at is new parents - which is where Mumsnet comes in.

We're working with Action for Children, which is the lead charity on the 'parents and young children' strand, to investigate loneliness within this group - and to try to think of things that we can all do to allay the effects of loneliness in this group.

So - with apologies for the long preamble! - here are some questions we'd love your thoughts on:

1. Do you feel lonely? If so, what do you think are the main causes of that?
2. If you have children, did you find that the transition to parenthood contributed to isolation or loneliness? If so, what sorts of forms does it take - and what effects does it have on you and your family?
3. If your children are old enough for the question to apply, do you think they suffer from loneliness? What are the factors, and how does it affect them?
4. What do you think can be done to help alleviate loneliness among new parents and children? If you've felt lonely, did you find an effective way to address it? Are there particular sorts of support you would find useful?
5. If you could ask people to do one thing to help tackle loneliness, what would it be?
6. If you are lonely as a parent, do you think it affects other adults in your family, such as your spouse/co-parent? If so, how? Do you think they are lonely?
7. And, if you've been lonely, are there any forms of support you really didn't like, or didn't find useful? Are there any approaches you think should be avoided?

Feel free to have a general ramble or bring up other points not referred to in the numbered list - we just want to hear your thoughts really.

We'll use your feedback to inform how we work with the Commission and to help shape the recommendations that the Commission will be making to the government at the end of 2017.

You can find out more about the Commission and the themes it will be addressing here, and you can take a personal pledge to start a conversation with someone here.

Thanks
MNHQ

I do volunteer - PTA and a group through which I chair a large annual event. So I meet a lot of people. But they don't turn into friends who I could phone for a natter/ ask out for a coffee. Partly I guess as I do have a job which can be funny hours and for which I travel a lot, so I'm only available at the weekends and everyone else is busy with friends and family then.

I have an old book of advice for 'young ladies' and it has a bit about being a wallflower, and the advice is to be helpful, and people will comment 'oh, Mary is so good with the little ones' and notice you. Thats me that is - in the kitchen at events, making cakes, clearing up and eternally looking on hoping one day I'll be the person someone thinks of not because they need something, but because they want to spend time with me.

I'm lonely, I do have a dp but he works nights and is not on this planet even when he is awake, he has undiagnosed mental health issues and cannot hold a conversation with me or the kids, does not do stuff with us and prefers the company of his friends to us. I have 4 dc and ds has autism and adhd. Due to his outbursts we can't have anyone to the house and I've lost my friends as I can never meet up with anymore as I now work full time.

No family apart from my mum who is wrapped up in her own boyfriend and barely sees us anymore and my distant brother who lives in Germany.

It struck home forcibly just how lonely we are when I was in the park today with 3 of my dc and everyone was there as a couple or with doting grandparents and my 6 year old turned me and said aren't they lucky mummy

I think part of the problem is the perception, nay the expectation, that we ought to be doing stuff with other people.
Where is the acceptance, hell, I'd even settle for tolerance, that people can do stuff on their own? Without being seen as a pariah?

So much pressure to be social, social, social.

Im dreadfully lonely too, it pains me each and everyday just how empty my life feels, and it is so bloody scarey.
My loneliness started I guess when my marriage was breaking down, I was trapped scared and lost. Id been with my ex my whole life so knew no different we met young and grew together. I didn't realise how controlled I was until things started to go wrong. I became ill couldn't work as hard as he demanded in our own business. I'v 2 dc's one autistic and after my marriage ended they as you'de imagine struggled particularly youngest dc.
I had my ex arrested in the end so pretty dramatic ending as Id gotten to breaking point, id been pushed to my last by him and was incredibale unwell. It was the most painful decision of my life to file for divorce because despite all I still loved him.
My family live away so not no were near and his family was all I had and we were so so close (or at least I thought we were) but from the moment he went they cut me off completly Id lost everything in what seemed like an instant, Id gone from being surrounded by people to nothing & Not one of them called to ask are the dc's ok just nothing.
So we were alone left to pick up the pieces, it was hard as I realised Id lost who I am, 'me! Through the years I was what I was told to be, what he wanted, Id never argued or questioned him I was blinded, I went from having to ask to go out or go shopping to nobody telling me what to do. I felt dumped if you like whilst he continued on with out a hitch.
I can't fully explain, but I can really connect with other pp's
(Oxcat) I sobbed reading your post I totally connect with you. You put your whole life into your marriage when it's gone it's frightening when nobody is around to pick you up again.
My dc really struggled and life's been literally about my dc's for 2 years 'desperatly trying to get them to a happy place emotionally again.
That's happening now there really doing well, there out & about happy with friends building there lives. But I'm again feeling lost, iv not built a life for me,if that makes sense? my friends live away so contact is difficult and rare.
So I sit and think what do I do now, it's just hitting me what iv been through because now 2 years on I find myself alone with my thoughts, trying to process it all with no one to lean on no one to pick me up and I just long for friends.

I couldn't go to meet up iv not got the confidence, I spend weeks at a time just seeing my children stuck in the house, im also suffering again with my health so im limited to what I can manage, so I feel I can't even escape my thoughts and fears by going out to take my mind of it.

💐 to everyone on this thread who is suffering the pain of loneliness it's shocked me how many of us are suffering.

This is a probably a crazy suggestion and I don't mean it to be 😊 but maybe we can help each other here? Maybe we could turn this thread into an opportunity to support each other?
I don't mean to get away from the threads discussion if you like but maybe we could start are own thread, were we can all help each other a place for us all to chat, were everybody suffering lonleyness can be!
Im sure some of us will even be in the same area as somebody else on the thread and even if just 2 or 3 people Made a friend a confidant and it changes just a few lives then surly it's worth it?
What do you think? Im more than happy to chat and would love a friend (s) to talk to even via email, so if anybody fancies a good old gab a handhold do reach out as I'll happily reply.
I know there is Mumsnet local but it would be kind of nice to have a chat were you can be yourself you can say I'm feeling Lonley, were no matter what your circumstance it's ok it doesn't matter because everyone is welcome!

Again I do not want to sound like a loon or a stalker ha!
It's just an idea, another avenue to reach out to others nearby who feel the same.
Sorry again for distracting the purpose of the thread.
Lonleyness is miserable and nobody deserves to feel that way at all, so hugs to you all x

Oh CMOT
You are awesome 💐

Panda - I think that's an ace idea

I've just looked up my local women's institute following Ragworts post (thanks) - and it does look like fun. Unfortunately it's not on a night i can go due to childcare. Worth checking out though. I found a lot of volunteer stuff on www.do-it.org as well.

I went to a "meet up" a couple of weeks ago. It was a lunch out. Small group. No one i clicked with particularly but it was lovely to have a friendly grown up chat. As great as it is to have contact on MN, chatting with real life (grown up!) people was great.

It does take a little courage though. i think if you are lonely in the first place because of mental health issues/lack of confidence/ anxiety etc then it's extra difficult to turn up somewhere new. I understand it's not for all But getting there was the difficult bit. Was ok once there.

I'm very lonely. Its a gnawing ache in my heart that never goes. I cry most days and fear for the future.

I'm a lone parent but also carer to a disabled child. I am estranged from my mum and in laws who sided with my stbxh.

He developed mental health problems and changed from a good and decent man to whom I had been happily married for 20 years to a viscious, vindictive, spiteful bully who was violent to both me and our children. The family turned their back on me when I reported him for sexual assault.

I've been left completely alone with no financial or practical support. He has abandoned his children too, as have the family. Overnight. The abuse and abandonment caused dd to develop PTSD.

It kills me when my dc ask why their daddy and grandparents don't want to see them anymore. Their behaviour has been utterly disgraceful and I hope they rot in hell for the pain they have caused a disabled child.

I have no other family due to 2 tragic bereavements and to be honest I don't kmow how I'm still standing. I have some amazing friends who I am so grateful for but I can't sleep at night for worrying what would become of my children if anything happened to me. I'm it. I'm all they have.

Forcing deadbeat fathers to pay a realistic amount for child support would be a start. I get £4 a day. Its a disgrace. I can't work now due her disabilities and no support so am condemned to growing old in poverty.

There should be much more support for lone parents/carerswith disabled dc. If I go under with physical exhaustion/stress then it will cost the state a hell of a lot more.

Pandamanda

Our stories are so very similar. I get it. I really do. Hugs.

I do volunteer at Parkrun every so often. It doesn't stop the loneliness but I keeps my options open for when the dc's are older and I can leave them at home alone.

Hey willyou & anametiuse
Thank you it's scarey isn't it how so many of our lives are so similar, we probably pass people in Rl all the time feeling just as Lonley but You'de never know.
I'll start a thread then tomorow as just about to hit the pillow as sooo tired (oh thanks to the joys of suffering sever anaemia) and hope to speak more to you & others in the same boat, im sure we can help each other its just nice to talk to people who understand.
Were do you think would be a good place to pop it? In chat maybe? Iv not been on MN very long so unsure were to put it, any suggestions or if anybody fancies opening one first great just pop the link on so we can all find each other again.
🍷 here's to kicking lonleyness into touch 😊 x

My loneliness is crippling and due in part to having kids, I was never lonely after my first even though I had moved before falling pregnant to a place where I felt was my home but I didn't know anyone, I planned to go to college etc but met my partner and fell pregnant instead. Things were great so we had a second, everything went downhill. She was very sick and didn't come home until she was close to nine months old, all her extra needs came with her, that was Linley and has made me housebound, even though she is much better now with less extra care needs, I can't get past the comfort of my house and hate leaving it, I have no friends except one who lives a plane ride away, I can't travel to see her because of the youngests equipment. I can't really do baby groups as no one really understands, I can't do soft play due to the youngests needs and I'm yet to go college or meet anyone.

I have awful depression and anxiety, I'm open enough to admit I'm very suicidal, but I can't do it because I worry about the effect it will have on my girls and that isn't fair.
Sometimes I want to run away but I can't because the guilt would kill me. It's awful, I find trusting very hard due to circumstances with my first and almost losing her but not in a life threatening way. My whole life is miserable and I regret a lot of things, sometimes I border on regretting my kids.
Life's too short to be this miserable I keep telling myself but it doesn't do any good, I just want to not be skint all the time be able to afford days out and to have a friend or two, who get me and understand my limitations but would be fine with popping round for a tea and a chat.

DontPullThatTubeOut I'm really sorry, that sounds very difficult.

I didn't find becoming a mum lonely - lots of places to make friends as a new mum. I was lucky with my NCT antenatal group - we carried on meeting regularly after our babies were born and I made some strong friendships.

Having a disabled child was a different matter. When delays became apparent toddler groups became fairly torturous because the difference between the others and my son was so apparent. He was unable to access group activities and I did begin to become isolated. I eventually found a very welcoming Steiner group that met twice a week.

As he grew older I became more isolated, especially when I had to juggle my younger two as well. This is where the internet was a saviour. He was diagnosed in 2002 and before diagnosis I had joined an internet group and mailing list for his condition which made the diagnosis much easier to accept. I also made friends with others going through the same thing via the internet and we would talk on the phone. I moved near someone in one of my groups and we are really good real life friends now. We have always been able to go in and out of each other's houses and have watched our children grow.

Mumsnet special needs section was a great help - I joined mumsnet in 2002 before there was even the separate section - it's a pity the SN originals have disbanded really although I am still in contact with lots of them.

When I see parents of children like my son (now a severely disabled adult) those who were doing all this before the internet or who have never engaged with the internet are much more isolated than those of us who have embraced the online support. I have learned so much from parents I met online - and it has enabled me to get my son the best support.

I wasnt lonely as a new parent because there was always something to go to. I am lonely now though as a sp the kids are older and everyone around me is busy with their lives/family. I feel like a tag a long!

Thanks so much to everyone for your contributions so far. The thread is a very interesting and moving read.

@Garlicansapphire

Huge respect to Jo Cox who supported the Campaign to End Loneliness in such an important way in Yorkshire. It meant so much to us.

Of course I'm lonely. We all experience it at some point in our lives. Apart from talking about it what is it your Commission is offering to do about it? If you encourage people to acknowledge their situation and then feel worse I'm not sure you're going to make anyone feel better unless you explain what it is you can offer us? Please say more about your practical solutions.

Again we will pass this on to the Commission for feedback, Garlic. Our understanding is that throughout 2017 the Commission will be throwing a spotlight onto loneliness and some of the forms it can take, partly in order to see what suggestions people have for ways to help. The Commission will aim to make some solid recommendations in its report at the end of the year.

Thanks again to everyone for your thoughts and please keep them coming.

I echo Foslady and other single parents. I'm lonely as a single parent. I have friends but nobody ever suggests doing anything at the weekend. Nobody ever rings for a chat. The technical world doesn't help as people prefer to message or text.

I'm on my own night after night with DD in bed. I only go out now if friends arrange something on the odd weekend.

I see my friends doing stuff at weekends in their family units and it makes me sad and lonely.

I work but that is often solitary too.

I work, I sleep, I deal with DD. Life often has no meaning apart from DD. I live very rural so no groups and not many other single parents.

Every year I say it will be different but it never is.

I feel a bit lonely tbh. DH and I both work full time; we have one 4yo DC and one on the way and so a lot of it is busyness. We're at work and at the weekends there's errands to run, family time to focus on because we don't spend much time with DS in the week, etc. I realised recently that we see friends so rarely. DH is less bothered about that as he is very introverted and has a full-on job that means he really values time to himself and peace and quiet in the evenings. I'm also quite introverted - I wouldn't want to be out socialising several nights a week, but I would like to do more. Being a FT working mum is a huge barrier because lots of other mums who are SAHMs or work part-time prefer to socialise during working hours and keep weekends for 'family time'. I think many other working mums of young DCs feel the same to be fair. I keep in touch with my NCT group (we all work, mixture of FT and PT) and we see each other a handful of times a year but always agree that life is just so busy that it's hard to get together.

I have a lot of anxiety about friendships which doesn't help (stemming from being badly bullied at school and always feeling left out/on the edge of friendship groups/as if people don't really like me). One thing I've found in recent years is that it always seems to be me doing the chasing of friends to try to arrange to do something together. There's a few people that we've tried and tried to get together with but it's always a case of messaging dates backwards and forwards desperately trying to find one that works for everyone, then some people invariably cancel on you at the last minute. Often I end up feeling as if people don't really want to spend time with me, especially when you then see that they're spending time with other friends - just not you. I find it hard to make new friends as I'm no good at small talk. I know that a lot of time I just need to get past it and actually bother to get in touch with people.

The transition to parenthood definitely contributed to loneliness. When I had DS none of my friends had children. DS was a high needs baby, awful sleeper etc. and so I wasn't around much in the early months. People I had considered good friends sort of dropped out of our lives. I found maternity leave so isolating and miserable. I had, thankfully, got a reasonably decent NCT group and we used to socialise weekly, go to a group together, etc. But apart from that I found it hard. I visited a couple of other groups and never stayed past the first couple of weeks as I hated all the small talk about babies and just sitting there awkwardly. I knew I was returning to work full time and so didn't want to get involved in loads of groups and activities as I knew I would have to shortly give them all up and would never see any of the people I'd met at them any more. As long as all goes well with DC2 I think I will be in a better position on mat leave as I now have a small handful of friends who are part-time working/SAH mums and that's so much easier than going along to groups where you know no-one and don't know if you'll have anything in common with the people there.

I'm a member of a local FB group for mums and it seems to be really good for getting people together and helping them to make friends. I think it helps that there are a handful of group members who are really proactive in posting stuff like 'Going to x park this morning, anyone want to come and have a coffee there?' or setting up other social events (there's been a pub meet-up, for example). They are also really encouraging and kind when people have posted about wanting to make friends but feeling very anxious about meeting new people or going to groups. Of course at present, I haven't been involved in anything the group has done as it all happens during working hours!

I wonder if my expectations are too high? Do other FT working mums of young DCs socialise very much or do we all feel the same?

I was thinking a little more (i have too much time!) - the friends i have who live near family got much more into hanging out with family after they had children. They spend more time with parents and siblings/nieces nephews which none of us did in our 20s. I really miss having family support.

I once googled to see whether you could "adopt a granny" because I seem to be drawn to chatting to women in their 60s, of my parents generation, who are more relaxed and interested than other new mums - who have their own issues. (What i came up with seemed to be for older people in need of a family to look after them. Nice idea but I'd probably depress them!.)

I wonder how many struggle from the beginning with new babies and never manage to get out of the lonely rut. It's great the health visitor handing you a list of groups in the area if you are confident. Not useful otherwise.

I think health visitors could play an important role with the right resource/ time.

My health visitor signed me off with DC2 when i was feeling absolutely dreadful. Partly because i didn't get a chance to tell her much of anything as ex husband was always there (which actually she should've been wary of). I felt quite desparate and abandoned but had no way to reach out. She was so lovely, i assume she was just short in time, had a busy workload.

When i moved and was totally isolated as marriage ended my youngest was still 1yo. I called the local health visitor team twice. A year and a half on i still haven't heard from them.

Gleam I really agree with you *'I think part of the problem is the perception, nay the expectation, that we ought to be doing stuff with other people.
Where is the acceptance, hell, I'd even settle for tolerance, that people can do stuff on their own? Without being seen as a pariah?

So much pressure to be social, social, social.'*

I'm generally quite shy, but when I am feeling robust (not right now) I just get on with life and my kids on my own, it's nice if we have company but if not we are ok. I realise that I am a pariah, I remember reading once that 'no one wants to eat in an empty restaurant'. I wish it were different for my kids, but I am a bit odd and I make odd life choices. I never judge anyone for doing stuff on their own.

I have been lonely in varying degrees most of my life. I have a hearing impairment which puts me on the back foot socially and makes large noisy gatherings very hard work to navigate. Although I don't quite register on the autistic spectrum I often find I have a lot in common with those with HFA and wonder if this is due to the sensory challenges that these people often face. I'm better now than I have been for a long time, thanks to strong family relationships and a realistic approach to friends.

I think that new parents face some very particular difficulties with loneliness. When you have a new baby taking up all your emotional and physical energy, you simply can't cope with any more social interaction with strangers, so baby groups are of limited use in combating loneliness. Physical isolation, yes, loneliness, no. This is a problem that needs a targeted and thoughtful approach. Putting a crowd of mothers together and expecting them to magically become friends just because they're mothers is short-sighted IMO. But trying to engineer friendships won't work either so I'm not quite sure what the answer is.

I'm mostly lonely at times of year when everyone else is surrounded by family... I only have two living relatives, both in their 70s/80s and live in a different country. One of them is my mum and we don't get along well at all.

I'm single and have no kids. Have always been an introvert and happy in my own company so it doesn't bother me to not see anyone all weekend etc., but I do notice when I don't get any Christmas presents and have spent Christmas alone for the past 7 years...

I don't think there's anything any charity or otherwise could do for me, though, as being invited to some 'Christmas for lonely people' type event would be my worst nightmare and just highlight how alone I am in the world. I suspect the only thing that really could help is if I had a partner and a family of my own, but I'm not sure I want that. If I wasn't an only child with no family around, I would definitely not want kids but the thought of not having anyone in the future scares me too.

I have a handful of good friends, some of whom live further away, and another dozen or so mates/neighbours/work colleagues I regularly chat to but am not particularly close to.

I live alone and despite being very much an introvert feel achingly lonely sometimes. I cannot commit to voluntary work due to health issues and find local groups full of cliques of people who go together and have known each other for years....so I feel left out and excluded, and even more lonely and unwanted so do not go.

The only thing that could help me is if there were a drop-in place where I could meet others on a casual basis who are genuinely isolated and lonely too...and friendly. I doubt there are any or will ever be any though.

I don't want a partner, I don't want to date or have a pen-pal, there do not seem to be any meetups in my area and the silver line [which I have contacted before] just bang on about volunteering.

beach - what about groups like WI, WEA, U3A, film clubs, local political groups, (Chruch?) etc- it's not 'volunteering' and you don't have to commit to attend regularly but you may meet like minded people or just enjoy an afternoon/evening out?

I completely agree with TwoLeftSocks:

What would help: raising awareness of ADHD/ASD in general to reduce social exclusion of children and parents. That would help a lot.

Specifically what the government could do, as well as funding new publicity campaigns about autism, is persuade GPs to allow adults to pursue a diagnosis, if they ask to do so. At the moment the 'line' is that adults should not pursue a diagnosis because there are no services for adults.

It's worth noting that there are many posts on this thread concerning families with autism: this one is another one. Can anyone hear us?