The Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness: are you lonely? What would help?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all,

Some of you may have heard of the Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness. The Commission was originally set up by the late Jo Cox MP alongside Seema Kennedy MP, and the aim was to have a cross-party parliamentary focus on the problem of loneliness in UK society.

After Jo's murder last June, Rachel Reeves MP has picked up Jo's baton (still with Seema Kennedy MP co-chairing), and the Commission was renamed in Jo's memory.

Over the course of 2017, the Commission is looking at loneliness among specific groups: older people, carers, people with disabilities, asylum seekers and refugees. And one of the groups they're looking at is new parents - which is where Mumsnet comes in.

We're working with Action for Children, which is the lead charity on the 'parents and young children' strand, to investigate loneliness within this group - and to try to think of things that we can all do to allay the effects of loneliness in this group.

So - with apologies for the long preamble! - here are some questions we'd love your thoughts on:

1. Do you feel lonely? If so, what do you think are the main causes of that?
2. If you have children, did you find that the transition to parenthood contributed to isolation or loneliness? If so, what sorts of forms does it take - and what effects does it have on you and your family?
3. If your children are old enough for the question to apply, do you think they suffer from loneliness? What are the factors, and how does it affect them?
4. What do you think can be done to help alleviate loneliness among new parents and children? If you've felt lonely, did you find an effective way to address it? Are there particular sorts of support you would find useful?
5. If you could ask people to do one thing to help tackle loneliness, what would it be?
6. If you are lonely as a parent, do you think it affects other adults in your family, such as your spouse/co-parent? If so, how? Do you think they are lonely?
7. And, if you've been lonely, are there any forms of support you really didn't like, or didn't find useful? Are there any approaches you think should be avoided?

Feel free to have a general ramble or bring up other points not referred to in the numbered list - we just want to hear your thoughts really.

We'll use your feedback to inform how we work with the Commission and to help shape the recommendations that the Commission will be making to the government at the end of 2017.

You can find out more about the Commission and the themes it will be addressing here, and you can take a personal pledge to start a conversation with someone here.

Thanks
MNHQ

While pregnant and with two toddlers I found it relatively easy to meet people; even though family circumstances mean we have to move fairly regularly and are far from extended family, I found a network of NCT mum's and supportive local friends, but I think several were friends because we had small children in common. We have moved again, and although we have been in place 3 years I am desperately lonely now I am back at work and in a small town where I find it difficult to 'break' into longstanding friendship groups or to meet people. A pressured job and having the children has meant that I haven't put enough effort into my closest, oldest friendships and they have drifted away. I find myself withdrawing from social media now as it just makes me feel lonelier. I don't know what would make the situation better, as I feel like if I was happier or more charismatic or a better person, people would like me enough to make plans with me.

1. Do you feel lonely and what are the causes?

I am someone who is hyper aware of other people's reactions to me. If I detect even a slight doubt or delay if i ask to meet with someone or articulate I like their company, i can't stand the feeling of shame that it causes in me and so I don't pursue the friendship at all. So you can imagine there have probably been a lot of potential friendships or connections that have passed under my nose and not come to frution because of that.

I am a SAHM of 2 under 2. I feel lonely because having children of this age generally means that everyone else who has children of the same age is also locked into their own routine and no one is able to be flexible because car journeys effect nap times or eating times, and it is hard to transplant two young children into another house or another person's routine, especially if they are different ages, just so you can hang out with a friend or another mum.

My husband is away a lot and does help, but we are short on money and our focus is just mutually getting through the days/ weeks/ months/ years, him making money and me bringing our children up - until we get to a point in the future where we might be able to relax a little. So the connection between my husband and I is also not great and we're both tired all the time.

I also think that it's a myth you meet "other mums" when you have kids. Any baby or toddler group I go to is filled with people who are self conscious about being there to meet other mums. And no one wants to appear desperate or lonely, so everyone seems to have a life outside the group. Everywhere I seem to go to meet this myth of "other mums," it never seems to be the place to do it.

When I had my dd who is now 3 she had reflux and I gave up going out eventually because she was always sick over me and herself. I ended up spending months on the sofa with bra and knickers on alone as the endless washing of my clothes was awful. When my dh came home in the evening I'd run around and pretend I'd been dressed all day before he got through the door. I was painfully lonely. By the end of her first year I'd lost contact with most of my friends as I just avoided going anywhere and lost all of my child free friends. I went back to work a wreck but hid it from everyone. If an official body had reached out to me I'd have grabbed it with both hands!

As a new, single parent, 7 years ago, Sure )start groups were a lifeline.Since the budgets were slashed, I would no longer meet the criteria to attend, so would be desperately alone if I had my DS, now.

As it is, we are currently in refuge. I am with DS 24/7. He goes to bed at 8 and that is that. No family, no babysitter, miles from 'home'. I can't tell family or friends where we are. I know no-one, here and have zero opportunity to meet anyone. I had to give up work and have no colleagues, no network here. Visitors are not allowed. I talk to the homeless guys in town, and to the staff if I have a specific issue.
Personally, I am just so relieved to be safe that I can cope. I am more used to it than most, though.

DS was out of school for almost 2 months, waiting for a place to be allocated. It is over 2 miles away, so no parents are local to me. The school run involves 8 buses a day. Occasionally another lonely person will speak to me during the journey, but Im not on each one for more than 5 minutes. I worry that I will forget how to hold a conversation.

I think if I was young and had previously had a busy social life, this would drive me to suicide.

At DS now has other children to play with, during school hours.

His dad, on the other hand, is still in his home, in our home town, surrounded by family and friends.

Am I bitter? Probably not as much as I could justifiably be. I suppose I'd better watch that, as it's not an attractive trait and might get in the way of me making friends, lol :/

womanscorned for you that sounds incredibly hard

Closing children's centres is not going to help. They are a life line for new mums. Everything else tends to cost - even just £2-3 can be a lot of it's a few times a week.

I am not lonely now but I remember feeling very lonely when my first 2 children were a baby and toddler. I am very shy so baby groups were not my thing at all. All of my family and friends were at work all day so it was just me and the kids. We did a lot and got out and about but it was just us. I'm not sure if anything could have been done to change that for me as there were groups and things to go to I just didn't. My children are definitely not lonely. They have school and loads of different groups to go to and they have each other for all the times in between

Further education classes used to be a way for people to make friends. There used to be lots of hobby type ones. Now they are all qualification based, and those hobby type ones have all been cut.

Howmanysleeps my partner also has lots of friends who call him regularly and and see him regularly. It highlights my situation of having no friends, and makes me a little embarrassed if I'm honest. I sometimes feel envious, and that's not a nice way to feel of your partner... so tends to be followed by self loathing.

I'm finding this thread cathartic, albeit very sad to hear all these stories. Loneliness is a horrible thing. It's not dramatic or offensive, its quiet and slow, it sits in the corner and leaves you empty.

I work full time Mon to Fri and have a toddler. DP works weekends. I have friends but they don't have children and are often very busy at weekends with their partners. Often I feel lonely on the weekends. Baby and toddler groups are only on weekdays so we miss out. I would really like some weekend groups for babies and toddlers.

Yes I am lonely. I have friends but my mental health problems, depression and low self esteem mean that I can be very insular. I find it impossible to pick up the phone at times and convince myself that no one would want to talk to me anyway.
When I make the effort I can be sociable - people tell me I'm interesting and intelligent. I have work colleagues who I sometimes socialise with but I'm wary of getting too close. My university friends are scattered far and wide, and my best friend emigrated to New Zealand ten years ago.
I'm too old for clubs and pubs - I find crowded places daunting, but I really feel I need to make more of an effort.
I had a bad experience at school in sixth form where I was pushed out of my friendship group by one nasty person and I feel scared to be part of a friendship group again.

I think a lot of my problem (and perhaps this goes for others too?) is that I'm quite busy - Dh works away, I care for my frail mother, I have 2 kids and all that goes with that and then I have my own health issues on too of all that.
I'm just quite tired a LOT of the time!
I should try harder to keep in touch with people but tbh most people I know are in a similar situation.
Dh looks after the dc when he is here but sods law I seem to get invites for when he is away!
We were going to go away for our anniversary in may but Dh needs a small op so that's off now.
Dh and dc are out together today. I'm at home feeling rubbish, but have done some housework and been shopping. If I were feeling better I'd have tried to go out for the day myself...

Posted too soon. I have one terrible memory of going to get my exam results on my own (and being really happy because I'd done well) and bumping into the group of "friends" who had said they weren't going at the same time as me. The ringleader rounded on me and said I was an arrogant swot who thought she was better than everyone, and everyone hated me. What was worse was other friends smirking behind her. I felt destroyed. So I find it hard to get close to people now.
My DH is great, but has solitary hobbies and I am often on my own (kids left home). I really would like more friends!

I think the fact that for the rest of the summer until I went to uni none of my "friends" would return my calls is a big part of my reluctance to phone people.

Lonelymiddle you sound like me. I hate phoning people too. I've been pushed out of so many friendship groups that I'm starting to get paranoid about everyone these days.

Another who does not fit into any of the groups and who is crushingly lonely.

The main cause is that my life consists of working very long hours and then being exhausted so no energy to do anything other than eat and sleep; and most people are in bed by the time I have finished work and not out of bed by the time my day has started the next morning. My work is solitary so if I have the chance to say more than good morning to anyone its a luxury. This has been going on for years. I was a single parent so that limited my free time; and on top of that have moved frequently for work and study so not been in one place long enough to form firm friendships before I move....and anticipate needing to move out of area again before the end of the year. I have people I stay in touch with via social media spread all over the country. I don't have family, except for my son who is grown up and living his own life.
I am on holiday for 2 weeks now and know that unless I go to the shop, wont speak to another person for the entire time. I would love to phone a pal and arrange lunch/coffee out, but am going through a rough patch financially so cant even afford the petrol to go and meet up with anyone. I don't know anyone despite living here for the last year as my home is just somewhere to sleep.

The answer.......find a less demanding job and stay in one place long enough to put down some roots I suppose.

To the poster who said about people who don't have the social skills to make small talk, that's me!! I have no idea how to socialise, I never got the chance as a child and had a solitary teen/early adulthood; and get very anxious in crowds and talking to strangers and my way of dealing with my anxiety is to go quiet and introvert.

Yes very much so, for a variety of reasons.

I have been diagnosed with high functioning autism, which may explain why I've often tried to have friends but can't quite 'click' or fit in.

I have a disabled dd, which along with my own issues, means the normal mother/baby/toddler groups are generally out of bounds.

As sad as it may seem, mumsnet and online gaming actually relieved most of if my loneliness, though it's never quite the same as a proper face to face chat.

Everyone's stories are so sad

I tend to agree with Sparrowhawk - I have never felt 'lonely' - I have lots and lots of friends and acquaintances; I was a SAHM for many years, never had family nearby when I became a parent and moved around a lot BUT I am very confident, outgoing and have loads of self esteem.

I find it very easy to join new groups, get involved in community activities, volunteer etc etc and for me, that is the way to meet people and make friends but clearly this is difficult for so many people. I belong to the sort of organisations that anyone can join but I frequently meet people who say they can't make friends or there is 'nothing to do' - but I live in a rural back water and there is just so much to do and so many things to get involved with - but you do need to make the effort.

I think more needs to be done to ensure people have the confidence and self esteem to be able to join groups and take the initiative. I appreciate that if you have an illness or disability that makes it hard to just get out of the house then, of course, this is very, very difficult.

Can I suggest one thing, not as a person who feels lonely except on rare occasions?

Stop putting the clocks back in the winter. You may think that it is the same hours of darkness and light each day, but experiencing the extra hour in the evening of daylight when in France or the Netherlands in the winter shows to me it would be a step forward.

Many older people are not keen on going out in the dark, so being at home alone starts almost after lunch as afternoon trips become a no-no for two or three months.

Yes. Survivor of an abusive relationship, part of which was isolation from friends. This is still continuing and now as a lone parent working on low pay without long term prospects despite being well qualified, it is incredibly difficult to meet other people, let alone form meaningful relationships for all the reasons others have already articulated.

As others have said I found it easier as a new parent through baby groups, but now with Sure Start cuts that's not an option with older children. I dread to think what would have become of me if I'd become a new mum now, with centres disappearing fast. I also wonder what will become of me now in terms of adult relationships, especially as I also need to recover from other effects of abuse. I'm too scared to even try to use the internet to reach out under my real name for fear of giving him another route through which to abuse me.

I don't think I can add much, if anything, to what others have already said so well, but wanted to add another voice to the growing collection of LPs here. Perhaps a genuine move to protect and support women and children leaving these relationships, preventing abusive NRPs using contact and the system to further abuse and harass, rather than lauding them (fathers, NRP mothers don't seem to get such accolades) for paying a bare minimum level of maintenance, etc etc etc, would produce the necessary shift change for so many LPs with no money, no confidence and no friends but holding it all together for the sake of their DC.

I don't feel lonely as such (I'm a new mum) but that's because I've got a big family and it's very easy to just socialise with them and nobody else. I have 2 friends who I've known for 15 years plus but I've never made any new friends since I left school. I would actually really like some friends to go out with but find it really difficult to get beyond that superficial level of chat. I'm more upset than I thought I would be about lots of people all feeling a bit awkward and not really knowing how to progress a friendship, it's a difficult one to solve. I go to groups and talk to people, there's people I think I would get on with but then I end up feeling like I'm being a needy weed if I invite people to have a coffee or whatever outside the group.

I'm interested in the idea that friendships take effort. I understand this rationally, and yet I get the suspicion from most people I interact with that it's a relief when I don't engage them in conversation. People would much rather I didn't make thy e effort. They have busy lives and they don't want me in it.

Huge respect to Jo Cox who supported the Campaign to End Loneliness in such an important way in Yorkshire. It meant so much to us.

Of course I'm lonely. We all experience it at some point in our lives. Apart from talking about it what is it your Commission is offering to do about it? If you encourage people to acknowledge their situation and then feel worse I'm not sure you're going to make anyone feel better unless you explain what it is you can offer us? Please say more about your practical solutions.

I agree with previous posters. As a new parent there were baby groups etc to be part of and I formed a lot of good friendships through them, same when my dc started nursery and school. We had to move 100s of miles following my divorce and my dc were too old for me to hang out at the school gates. They are now teens and hang out with their friends or spend all their time in their room on wifi with their friends as typical teenagers do! I am lonelier now than I ever was as a new mum! Weekends are a killer as are sunny bank holidays when I sit in my garden reading listening to all the happy family bbqs taking place around me. I do have friends but they all have husbands and do family things weekends and holidays.