The Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness: are you lonely? What would help?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello all,

Some of you may have heard of the Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness. The Commission was originally set up by the late Jo Cox MP alongside Seema Kennedy MP, and the aim was to have a cross-party parliamentary focus on the problem of loneliness in UK society.

After Jo's murder last June, Rachel Reeves MP has picked up Jo's baton (still with Seema Kennedy MP co-chairing), and the Commission was renamed in Jo's memory.

Over the course of 2017, the Commission is looking at loneliness among specific groups: older people, carers, people with disabilities, asylum seekers and refugees. And one of the groups they're looking at is new parents - which is where Mumsnet comes in.

We're working with Action for Children, which is the lead charity on the 'parents and young children' strand, to investigate loneliness within this group - and to try to think of things that we can all do to allay the effects of loneliness in this group.

So - with apologies for the long preamble! - here are some questions we'd love your thoughts on:

1. Do you feel lonely? If so, what do you think are the main causes of that?
2. If you have children, did you find that the transition to parenthood contributed to isolation or loneliness? If so, what sorts of forms does it take - and what effects does it have on you and your family?
3. If your children are old enough for the question to apply, do you think they suffer from loneliness? What are the factors, and how does it affect them?
4. What do you think can be done to help alleviate loneliness among new parents and children? If you've felt lonely, did you find an effective way to address it? Are there particular sorts of support you would find useful?
5. If you could ask people to do one thing to help tackle loneliness, what would it be?
6. If you are lonely as a parent, do you think it affects other adults in your family, such as your spouse/co-parent? If so, how? Do you think they are lonely?
7. And, if you've been lonely, are there any forms of support you really didn't like, or didn't find useful? Are there any approaches you think should be avoided?

Feel free to have a general ramble or bring up other points not referred to in the numbered list - we just want to hear your thoughts really.

We'll use your feedback to inform how we work with the Commission and to help shape the recommendations that the Commission will be making to the government at the end of 2017.

You can find out more about the Commission and the themes it will be addressing here, and you can take a personal pledge to start a conversation with someone here.

Thanks
MNHQ

I don't feel lonely, I have lovely friends.

From an outside perspective (as a not-lonely person) two things seem to cause loneliness: circumstances (illness, isolation, new parenthood) and lack of self esteem (though this of course is a chicken and egg situation). I know a couple of lonely people who are very nice but who scupper friendships through their own actions. I don't think they realise it. For example I used to run a toddler group and my 'job' was basically to greet everyone and chat to them. Most people were shy at first but then settled in and chatted to various others. But there were always a few who were practically silent, who never started a conversation, who gave one-word answers to questions. A couple of them complained about not making friends but what did they expect if they simply wouldn't engage? With some of them I tried and tried but for whatever reason (and I'm aware MH issues can be a big factor - I've had severe depression in the past) they made no effort and I had to give up. Most people aren't as persistent as me.

Making and keeping friends takes effort. Perhaps some people need help with the social skills needed to put that effort in?

Im lonely. So bloody lonely.

Single mum. I just work, referee arguments, sort washing and go to bed.

I'm not autistic, nor do I have social anxiety per se, still doesn't make it any easier to meet new people.

I think I lost friends when my marriage ended. Doesn't help that exDH has the life of Riley.

Im funny, kind, supportive, a genuinely good listener. Buckets of empathy and emotional intelligence. Still very lonely.

It's a sad situation I'm in, along with thousands of others, no doubt.

I prefer the word solitude to loneliness. I was more lonely when at home with my young children than now when they are at school and I have time alone. Maybe I'm just odd, but I really prefer time to myself. I think I may have social anxiety, or am an introvert, but perhaps there are also some groups of people who enjoy time alone more than others.

I was lonely when I had my abusive parents in my life. They tried to control who I saw and for how long. I didn't know who I could trust because of the nasty things my parents would say about other mums I knew. I was in my 30s.
When I told them less I enjoyed chatting to other mums at baby groups and inviting mums to my house. As our dcs grew up we had less in common and grew apart. I only see one of the mums now and a handful on Facebook. But I've made a few new friends who I've met at school pick up times. I do enjoy my own company as I have Complex PTSD and can find people tiring. I don't see my parents anymore and have had therapy to learn to not be so suspicious of others. There must be other people who have loneliness for similar reasons to me. Now I have a dog I meet people walking him and chat to other dog walkers.
From my point of view having abusive parents is loneliness because you think there's something wrong with you as your parents are disgusted and find you unlovable. You feel ashamed and hide away. There needs to be more public support for adult children of abusive parents. Especially as you grow up raising yourself and the only model of a parent is toxic. This makes it harder when you are a new parent and to expose your parenting to others. It is very isolating. I was so afraid someone would see me parenting and take my baby away.

I only began the inviting when ds1 was about a year old. When he was a baby I visited a friend I knew before babies. Then I could dictate the length of the visit. Short!

I'm lonely.

Falling pregnant caused me to realise how shallow a lot of my relationships were- superficial acquaintances rather than close friends. People stopped contacting me- presumably because I wasn't able to drink and be 'fun' anymore at pub gatherings after work and such. I was exhausted much of the time while pregnant, so even if I had been contacted, I probably wouldn't have been able to go out much.

My baby is difficult, used to cry constantly, it made going out very stressful. I've spent a year hardly going out socially, and since maternity leave, the days are very structureless and isolated and I can no longer relate to others in the same way I used to.

Everything I do revolves around the baby and I lack confidence in my personality because I feel I have become a boring person to speak to. The things I used to do to socialise I can no longer do and am definitely having an identity crisis.

I try to get out and go to baby groups but all conversations are small talk/superficial, and although the people I meet at these groups are nice, I get a sense that for many other new mums, these groups are to fill in the gaps between the times they're able to spend with real friends- a bit of light hearted mummy chit chat... whereas I want to make real friends, as I really don't have many at all.

I feel that making friends, once you have already crossed the bridge into loneliness, becomes a very hard thing to do. When you already have friends, there is a flow to making new friends, but when you don't have friends, there is an element of desperation which makes things feel less natural. In my experience, anyway.

I find other mothers are one of the reasons I'm lonely. They tend to be quick to judge, low on empathy, look you up and down and judge you on your job, house, clothes. Being a single mother on benefits means I may as well be a leper. It's got ten times worse. Obviously #NotAllMothers

I'm with Shatners on this one. Finished work today, no plans for the weekend and probably won't speak to another person until I go back in Monday. I'm mid-40s, no family, no DC, few friends.

@Loneliness17 I know how you feel

Like CMOT, my dh works away and dc at school and my mother is just take take take
I don't really enjoy spending time wirh her tbh 😞
I seem to spend all my time looking after the needs of others
It's a bit soul destroying really

According to one of my favourite books, Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome, you should -

Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need – a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing.

It sounds so easy to arrange but it truly isn't. And people get weighed down with all sorts of rubbish.

for all those who has been affected by loneliness.

Actually I think MN might be a bit of a loneliness hotspot – people reaching out through cyberspace to make some sort of contact with other human beings.

The conversations are often messy and disjointed. Most of the time you are uncertain whether you’ve been heard at all - but people keep coming back for more. Somehow it beats sticking a message in a bottle and throwing it in the ocean or climbing to the top of a hill and sending smoke signals.

I know there is the PM function and that local meet-ups are arranged too but I wonder if there might be a market for a (tasteful) MN friendship version of Tinder to bring like-minded people together?

And, yes, I do feel lonely from time to time and yearn to make deeper connections with people.

One of my favourite books!
Very true too!

My children live 3000 miles away from me. Today I asked someone on my course if he'd like to go for dinner with me. He brushed me off. I asked in the spirit of friendship.
I just found out that Sally Brampton died where I live.
I don't normally post details like this on here. But right now I am staring out over the view I have and feeling so so alone.

I was lonely because when I had my dcs i had just arrived in the UK and hadn't made any 'friends' yet, so no network to rely on. People stuck with the people they knew from before.
Nearly 20 years on, still lonely. Reasons could be varied but I would put that on the British struggle to socialise. Most people are friends with people they have met when they were kids or at Uni, not new comers like me.
Add to that a small town mentality... which might explain the point above btw. But it adds the 'if you don't behave exactely the way we expect you to, then we will look at you in a weird way and refuse to engage'

I've had too many of those encounters to even try anymore.

I have more friends in my country (that I left 20 years ago) than I have friends where I live.
Friends that I have in the UK all a re either immigrants like me or are pele who have lived abroad at some point in their life.
Says a lot I think.

I often feel lonely. I moved to a new area and haven't made friends. What everyone says is to do some volunteering, join something, go to the gym, do yoga and Pilates. Well, I volunteered at the local school. I was never invited into the staff room or offered a drink. I've tried several times to volunteer for food bank work, but there are no vacancies. There are no vacancies locally for yoga or Pilates and I can't afford the gym. All the adult ed courses are expensive too.

If you haven't got spare cash, it's easy to feel a bit stuck.

Room101
I have depression too. I am so sad that this insidious illness took such an inspiring person.

I'm lonely because I'm the only childless one in my group of friends - missing out on days out while they're on mat leave & I'm stuck working full time, nothing much in common anymore as I can't join in the usual mum chat, & the new women I meet don't usually have time to socialise after work, as it's their only time with their kids. Male platonic friends disappeared once I got engaged/married and they saw there was clearly never going to be the opportunity of a quick shag.

I think we contribute to loneliness as a society, by encouraging economic productivity above all else and not investing in relationships outside of the nuclear family. My mum and dad still can't walk around the supermarket without being stopped for a chat by old neighbours, friends from church and friends they made from school. But mum was a SAHM and they never moved outside of their own small town, they had the time to invest in friendships, and locals all worked in the same small factories - whereas I had to move to the city for uni and to find a decent job, leaving my school friends and network behind.

Mrs Beverly I hear you about the abusive parents. They don't hear you or relate and make you feel lonely. if you haven;t already a good site i find helpful if called Out of the FOG. It can be less lonely without them I understand. Kind thoughts.

Beverly I read shoot the damn dog when I was having therapy. The book has stayed with me ever since. Right now I feel if someone so talented and able to express what she was going through, ended up walking into the sea, what hope is there for me?
I keep on trying but just little things like being brushed off today make me think what is the point in trying?

Room 101. I had to look up Sally Brampton. If it weren't for my kids I'd probably walk into the sea too. My depression and BPD are overwhelming me right now and I don't know how much fight I've got left.

I'm in my late 40s and have never felt lonely. Always had friends, but being content in your own company is one of the most important skills to learn early in life, in my opinion.

I feel that everything that led up to my mental health issues (bad parenting, toxic relationships, post natal depression) have led to me being isolated.
Basically anyone I have pit my trust in, has let me down and any time I try to build new relationships this holds me back.

I'm lonely. I've always been shy and though I've learnt to manage casual conversation, I've never managed to arrange to swap numbers/ meet up easily. The few friends I had drifted away during my first pregnancy 10 years ago.
As a new mum, it was easier for a while thanks to playgroups etc, but then I returned to full time work. Groups didn't fit my hours (9-5). I never made friends at the school gates etc because I have to use wrap around care/ am rushing to get to/ from work on time.
I have literally no one, friend or family, that I can just call for a chat, or that has called me to chat in 10 years.
Being the boss of a team in work doesn't make it easy to make friendships there either.
Dh isn't lonely. He isn't shy, has been able to maintain interests and friendships, and regularly receives calls to just chat/ invites out. I'm often invited too (through courtesy as a couple thing) but as we have no childcare wouldn't be able to go even if I felt confident to.
The only thing that helps abate the loneliness (other than dh and dc) is the occasional chat with a stranger in the supermarket etc. I've no idea what would help as through shyness/ lack of confidence/ lack of childcare and fear of rejection I'm pretty sure I'd put barriers in place unintentionally!

FKat2016, you summed that up perfectly.

Actually as a new mum meeting people even for just casual chat was easy because there are so many groups. There was a big shut down of sure start groups of preschool (ie older than 12 months) aged dc in my area and the loneliness set in. Now the dc are in school the isolation is entreched. The school gate is awful & very judgmental where we moved to; very cliquey. Turned out to be an unwelcoming place to live. Felt a bit better going back to a job, although menial i get to speak to people! I am natually quite intoverted and am fine with my own company but I would love a few friends to hang out with, but so hard to meet people with similar interests.

I'm sometimes lonely. I am a lone parent, I run a business, home educate my DD because she was bullied at school and have elderly parents I sometimes have to support. I have enough friends / acquaintances but I'm so tired from all the things I have to do to make many arrangements with people. Also I'm sick of being the only single person among couples and it feeling awkward. I was definitely lonely when DD was younger and I couldn't get out. Now she's a teen I can get out independently but in reality I'm often running her around or I'm catching up with work evenings and weekends because I've been running her around in the week. I miss having someone to share my day with or just be able to pop out and do stuff on a whim instead of having to arrange everything in advance. What would help me would be XP actually paying proper maintenance so that I didn't have to work so hard, and actually doing some parenting, some lone parent friends (I did have some but they're now in relationships) and a partner, though I have accepted that bringing an adult man into the house with a teenage DD is not going to be easy. I can't really see how anyone else can provide me with any of those. I don't think DD is lonely because I work hard to make sure she has lots of opportunities to socialise and always have. I note there's quite a few of us saying we're lonely as lone parents.